Saddened by NY Grand Jury Decision To NOT Indict

[Praxeas]

[QUOTE=n david;1346519]Move on, nothing to see here. Choking the neck of someone and kneeling on their back has no effect on breathing or the heart, right.
[QUOTE]
You don't actually interact with what people here are saying nor our links. Instead you continually appeal to emotive arguments

He did not CHOKE him. You can remain ignorant by not reading all the information I have given you but he did not CHOKE the man. He put him in a head restraint and his windpipe showed NO damage. He was not having his breathing cut off from this move

And someone on his back causing his cardiac arrest?
I DID actually NOT deny that could or did contribute to the heart. You missed that because, as I said, you are functioning on Emotions.

I will add one last thing, because I re-watched the video.

He was combative and agitated from the beginning. Stress can cause a CA too

Im having serious questions regarding the coroners report because as I am watching the video he complains about breathing before being on his stomach yet the CA report says "Chest compression"...

Some of speculated the CA report was political.

[n david]

So he was lying when he said he couldn't breathe? Unfortunately we can't ask him, since he's dead.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by n david

So he was lying when he said he couldn't breathe? Unfortunately we can't ask him, since he's dead.

He didn't die from asphyxia

There was no damage to his windpipe

He has asthma

[Originalist]

I have not taken the time to read every post on this thread.

IMO this case and the Michael Brown case are entirely different. Even conservative radio pundits have questions on this one. I think the reason that the officers were not charged is because technically it was not the "choke hold" that caused the death, but was, as someone else pointed out, the asthma. However, it still seems strange how slow to react the officers were as the man lay there dying. Not having heard all the evidence that the grand jury did, it is difficult to give an accurate opinion. Therefore I cannot say that I am saddened by the verdict.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I have not taken the time to read every post on this thread.

IMO this case and the Michael Brown case are entirely different. Even conservative radio pundits have questions on this one. I think the reason that the officers were not charged is because technically it was not the "choke hold" that caused the death, but was, as someone else pointed out, the asthma. However, it still seems strange how slow to react the officers were as the man lay there dying. Not having heard all the evidence that the grand jury did, it is difficult to give an accurate opinion. Therefore I cannot say that I am saddened by the verdict.

I questioned it at first...I was going by the video. But then I started using my brain, read up on the topic some, listened to everyone involved and I came to my conclusions

BTW if this cop was charged with something else like negligence, maybe the verdict would be different

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I questioned it at first...I was going by the video. But then I started using my brain, read up on the topic some, listened to everyone involved and I came to my conclusions

BTW if this cop was charged with something else like negligence, maybe the verdict would be different

I said this on the 8th. Use your brain not your emotions. Stop trying to twist my wordz

I never flip flopped. Stop the lies

[n david]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

He didn't die from asphyxia

There was no damage to his windpipe

He has asthma

Oh good grief. It takes a special person to completely ignore the choke hold, kneeling on the back and shoving down on the neck and face, pushing it into the ground as causing the stress which led to the cardiac arrest and just claiming, eh it was just asthma.

There doesn't have to be damage to his windpipe for a person to be cut off from breathing; Nor does there have to be damage for stress to cause cardiac arrest.

He kept telling the thugs he couldn't breathe. Over and over and over and over. And what did they do?

Shoved his head into the concrete and put a knee into his back and lungs. Then they stood around and watched him die.

And this doesn't bother you? You defend this?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by n david

Oh good grief. It takes a special person to completely ignore the choke hold, kneeling on the back and shoving down on the neck and face, pushing it into the ground as causing the stress which led to the cardiac arrest and just claiming, eh it was just asthma.

There doesn't have to be damage to his windpipe for a person to be cut off from breathing; Nor does there have to be damage for stress to cause cardiac arrest.

He kept telling the thugs he couldn't breathe. Over and over and over and over. And what did they do?

Shoved his head into the concrete and put a knee into his back and lungs. Then they stood around and watched him die.

And this doesn't bother you? You defend this?

A man is resisting arrest and the police are supposed to release their hold on him when he says he can't breath?

Any video filming a "resist" incident is not going to be pretty.

Let's talk about the police officers who DAILY lay down their lives for their communities. People are getting way too aggressive.

A woman was complaining to me about how the police treat her son. I asked, "Has he ever struck a policeman."

"Yes, three of them."

Please give this boy special treatment.

I just finished sitting on the jury of a criminal trial. It lasted almost two weeks - all DAY long. Let me tell you that we took the evidence VERY seriously. When we were sequestered, we continually sent out requests to review evidence, 911 calls, interviews, etc. And it is totally different when you are sitting around a table with the law in your hands, weighing the evidence against it. It DOES NOT look the same as it would for someone sitting in the courtroom OR on the sidelines.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by n david

Oh good grief. It takes a special person to completely ignore the choke hold, kneeling on the back and shoving down on the neck and face, pushing it into the ground as causing the stress which led to the cardiac arrest and just claiming, eh it was just asthma.

You're still being emotional and not reading. I was the one that noted ALL those factors were said to contribute. However it was NOT a choke hold. He did not die from asphyxiation

So saying Im ignoring something that I am not just shows you are not thinking coherently.

What we don't see is HOW any of these contributed. A cop can run down a suspect and he could have a heart attack by being chased. Lots of things can trigger it

But it was NOT a choke hold. It was a head lock. He had one arm under the other guys arm

Stress is not murder. Ok? He was resisting arrest. That is what they do, when you resist, they take you down. That is their training. That is what the GJ probably concluded

Ive watched hundreds of police take downs on TV. They always wrestle then down, get them on their stomach and press their knees into the back

[n david]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The Autopsy only gave what he did as a contributor factor. He also listed the dude KNEELING on the mans back and him being on his stomach

Ok he did not have a problem breathing until they rolled him on his stomach.

What do you mean with the statement in bold? The PRIMARY cause of death was done by the cop. The compression of neck and chest were not listed as contributing factors. Just trying to clarify this, since I missed doing so earlier.

The last statement about not having problems breathing until he was on his stomach is a guess and not based on any proof or fact.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Once again that cop did not kill him. The contributing factors include being placed on his stomach and having someone stick their knee on his back and press down. That is VERY common for a take down arrest when someone resists.

No, the compression of the chest was listed as a primary cause, not contributing factor.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

There was no damage to his windpipe. He did not suffocate to death

Correct that he didn't die from suffocation; however, a person can be choked and not show damage to the windpipe. It is possible.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

He went into Cardiac arrest. that could have happened to anyone with a bad heart

Again, here's my issue with the repeated references to his preex conditions: they weren't the primary cause of death. Garner didn't just drop dead from a preex condition, his neck and chest were compressed to the point it caused stress on the heart. He wasn't able to breathe. Man, I have no preex conditions, but there's a chance if my neck and chest are compressed to where I cannot breathe....I could have cardiac arrest.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Repeating. It was a legal hold, not an illegal chokehold. The man died from cardiac arrest not asphyxia

The Coroners report said it was merely a contributing factor along with his poor health and being on his chest with someone compressing down on his back

Again. that's not true. The compressions were the primary, NOT contributing, cause of death.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

And someone on his back causing his cardiac arrest?
I DID actually NOT deny that could or did contribute to the heart. You missed that because, as I said, you are functioning on Emotions.

I never said you did. My post was a sarcastic reference to the continued, and incorrect, emphasis on the preex conditions.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

He didn't die from asphyxia

There was no damage to his windpipe

He has asthma

He didn't die from asthma, did he? Every report I've read has the primary cause of death as a result of what the cop did to him, not because of a preex condition. I never said he died from asphyxia. Read my earliest posts, I've always said the actions of the cop caused the cardiac arrest.

tbc...