Messianic Judaism

[Dedicated Mind]

I just finished a series of payed online lectures on Messianic theology and the main thrust of the presentation was that jewish believers in messiah should still obey the law and customs but that gentile believers were not required to. I was under the impression that messianics believed that all christians should follow the law, but that is not the case. according to paul, in I cor 7 he says:

17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.


In light of these verses, do you believe it is wrong for a gentile christian to convert to messianic judaism or do you believe that jewish christians should not be following the law?

[Sister Alvear]

I believe there is only one plan of salvation for everyone...

[Michael The Disciple]

7But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me , as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles Gal. 2:7-8

The law for Jews but not for the Gentiles. I get that. However then came the book of Hebrews? Now the Jews are also free from the law?

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

I just finished a series of payed online lectures on Messianic theology and the main thrust of the presentation was that jewish believers in messiah should still obey the law and customs but that gentile believers were not required to. I was under the impression that messianics believed that all christians should follow the law, but that is not the case. according to paul, in I cor 7 he says:

17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.


In light of these verses, do you believe it is wrong for a gentile christian to convert to messianic judaism or do you believe that jewish christians should not be following the law?

No Jew is required to keep the law. My question to such people is WHY are they keeping the law? for what purpose?

Moreover, if they are going to keep the law, they have to keep the WHOLE law and not just some of it. In other words, the sacrifices instituted UNDER the law must also be kept. Now, I don't think any christian would wanna be sacrificing today when already the perfect sacrifice (Jesus) has been offered for us.

I believe Paul fought tooth and nail against Jews being required to keep the law.

Rom 7
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

We are DEAD to the law and MARRIED to Christ.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

7But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me , as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles Gal. 2:7-8

The law for Jews but not for the Gentiles. I get that. However then came the book of Hebrews? Now the Jews are also free from the law?

mtd, i've really been looking into messianics the last few days. there are 2 camps. the majority of messianics believe in the "two house" theory. that the body of christ is made up of torah observant jews and non torah observant gentiles. one new man in the body of christ. neither jew nor greek, each group is part of the priesthood of israel. just like male and female are one body yet distinct, jew and gentile are one body but distinct in the two house body of christ. nowhere in the new testament is torah observance denied the jew; peter, paul and jesus were all torah observant.

the second camp of messianics are called "one law" messianics where they believe that all christians should be torah observant.

the real issue in torah observance is circumcision. keeping the feast days, sabbath and kosher food laws are not a real issue. two house messianics don't require circumcision while one law does. if you were to convert to messianic judaism and get circumcised, the state of israel does not recognize messianic conversion, not even ethnic jews who are messianic. judaism does not recognize messianic conversion. i do not believe that god in the scripture requires it of believers nor does paul. so really the only reason to get circumcised is to join a one law church or organization. the one law organization that i am aware of, beth haderech, does not accept the deity of jesus. the mainstream 2 house messianics believe in the trinity. unless there is an independent oneness messianic congregation, the only apostolic messianics are gary reckharts apostolic messianics, but i don't know his stand on circumcision. i don't remember offhand his negatives, but i think he has been really negative toward apostolics in the past. i might be confusing him with steve winter. i am not sure.

so i personally don't see anything wrong with the 2 house messianics.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I believe there is only one plan of salvation for everyone...

no one is denying that salvation is through faith in yeshua. the only issue is the messianic judaism is a ministry directed to the jew first and many unbelieving jews would not feel comfortable leaving their culture and traditions to worship in a christian church. messianic judaism provides an avenue for unbelieving jews to affirm their jewish identity. nowhere in the new testament does the bible say that jews are supposed to forsake torah. actually the bible says there will always be a faithful remnant of israel. if there is a remnant of israel that means they have not forsaken the law but are torah observant believers in yeshua. it is not about how we are saved, it is about maintaining jewish identity.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

No Jew is required to keep the law. My question to such people is WHY are they keeping the law? for what purpose?

Moreover, if they are going to keep the law, they have to keep the WHOLE law and not just some of it. In other words, the sacrifices instituted UNDER the law must also be kept. Now, I don't think any christian would wanna be sacrificing today when already the perfect sacrifice (Jesus) has been offered for us.

I believe Paul fought tooth and nail against Jews being required to keep the law.

Rom 7
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

We are DEAD to the law and MARRIED to Christ.

when paul says we are not under the law but under grace, he means(according to messianics) that salvation is now through faith in christ, not through the works of the law, but that does not mean that jews are to abandon torah, it is part of their national identity. abandoning the law was never an issue for jewish christians.

[Dedicated Mind]

statement of faith from reckhart's apostolic messianic fellowship.

http://jesusmessiehchurch.com/html/statement.html

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

statement of faith from reckhart's apostolic messianic fellowship.

http://jesusmessiehchurch.com/html/statement.html

i just read this statement. they are not in to law keeping and they do not believe in a future role for ethnic israel when paul says "all israel will be saved" i don't know why they call themselves messianic.

[Sister Alvear]

I cannot see two peoples....two churches...two plans....for there is only ONE Olive tree and we gentiles were grafted in making us all part on one Tree...Would Jesus have two brides?