Noah and the Ark

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Jesus didn't heal every sick person when he walked on earth.

Genuine, miraculous healings are few and far between. I don't know why.

Who sought healing from Jesus and didn't receive it?

[Esther]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I heard Bro. Treece say that Melchizedek built the Great Pyramid of Giza and that the Nephilim ("giants" Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 1:13:33) flew around in UFO type spacecraft and were responsible for the craters on the moon. He then described how he saw just such a spacecraft while out coon hunting one night and attempted to signal the thing with his headlamp. He said that one of the brothers with him asked what he was doing (being afraid of the "UFO"), Bro. Treece said, "I wanna ride on that thing! That's the same way we're going up in the rapture!"

I have never heard him say such. Not disputing that he said it, just saying I never heard him say it.

The "miracle" would have been that Pharoah and his troops could not cross the same path that the Israelites had just crossed. That is, if you want to get your own self stuck in the marsh. I don't. Why are you arguing with someone else here?

Why should we get stuck on the "Reed Sea" versus "Red Sea" canard? Look up Exodus 13:18 and you will see that the Hebrew words used here are "Sooph Yawm." The word "sooph" means "reed" like what the "soopherim" ("Sopherim" - scribes) used to make papyrus out of. The Israelites crossed a body of water that they themselves called "The REED SEA."

There's a lot of junk at the bottom of the body of water that we call the Red Sea. There have been ships wrecking there since ships were first invented. See for example 1 Kings 22:48. Scattered chariot wheels and other military supplies have always been found throughout the region. There is no evidence that clearly identifies any particular find with the events described in Exodus 13 through 15. In fact, the chariot wheels found in the Gulf of Aqaba may even have been Jehoshaphat's He used chariots extensively (1 Kings 22:29-37).

* And just for the record... The "Sooph Sea" (REED SEA) mentioned in Exodus is the same body of water as that used by Jehoshaphat and Solomon (1 Kings 9:26-28) to sail to Ophir. The ancient "REED SEA" was clearly the large body of water that we today call the "RED SEA."

Doesn't the Bible say they crossed on DRY land?

Misunderstandings like the one you are wrestling with here can actually be overcome by simply taking the Bible on its own terms. And, we don't have to resort to UFO mythology to establish the Bible's truths.

You are, of course, assuming that it is a misunderstanding according to your way of thinking. And I will be honest I have NEVER heard anyone say what you have in this post.


I suspect that there's an innocent typo here... but this may also have been a "Freudian slip."

I am trying to be "careful" to "prove the Bible to be what it says!" There is no deception involved at all.

Can't see that this is exactly what you are doing here yourself?

Every time a plea like this is made some poor soul ends up shrugging their shoulders and saying, "Oh well! I guess the Bible can't be true then..." and YOU end up wrecking the faith of millions.

I seriously doubt that. If someone has to have everything proved to them which none of us can, as we were not there, they wouldn't have enough faith to believe God for salvation.

Why do you demand that your methodology be accepted as the "only way?" You and Aquila both are arguing that we deny the reality that greets us each day we roll out of bed. Did God really create this universe just so that He could demand that we live in a dream world and deny the existence of His creation?

Huh???

Your fundamentalism is directly responsible for the decline in the Christian faith - first in Europe and now in the United States. You make unreasonable demands that no thinking person could possibly swallow and then you say - "You either believe it or you don't!"

And so, our children, our young people and our entire society simply shrugs their shoulders and say, "Okay, you're explanations do make any sense, so I won't believe anything!"

Again, I disagree with this. The reason folks are leaving Christianity is because they don't have a relationship with God. They don't KNOW Him.

Saying I will prove the bible is true is fine I suppose, but I don't see how much of it can be PROVED. I think there is a lot of speculation going on.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Who sought healing from Jesus and didn't receive it?

He could not heal many because of their unbelief.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Esther

He could not heal many because of their unbelief.

Yes, but who sought healing and didn't receive it?

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Who sought healing from Jesus and didn't receive it?

I don't know about 'sought', but there were plenty that he passed each day and didn't heal. When Jesus was at the pool of Bethesda, he only healed one man, apparently. But there were many sick there, according to the account.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Esther

Again, I disagree with this. The reason folks are leaving Christianity is because they don't have a relationship with God. They don't KNOW Him.

Judas had a relationship with Jesus and he left. "For he was numbered with us and had obtain part of this ministry", Luke wrote.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Yes, but who sought healing and didn't receive it?

I get your point, and I don't have any answers.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I get your point, and I don't have any answers.

Yeah, I don't either. And I'm not sure that I have a point, but since NotforSale bravely opened the can of worms, I thought I'd go ahead and gush that the subject of healing has always bugged me.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Timmy

It says it happened. It doesn't say it literally happened, nor does it say it was all just a parable (or whatever). The Bible also says Jesus was resurrected. Was that a literal event? How do we know what to take literally, and what not to? If there is no physical evidence of something, do we assume it was figurative? Where's the physical evidence of Jesus' resurrection, today?

Ultimately, whatever one believes about the Bible, one must believe by faith.

I don't believe the literal 6 day creation because such an event MUST have left some evidence. But there is none; and the evidence that we do have shows that this simply did not happen.

NOTICE: I DID NOT SAY, "It could not have happened." I said that it did not happen.

I don't believe the fundamentalist's version of "Noah's Flood" because such an event MUST have left some evidence and there is none. Again, I'm NOT saying that God COULD NOT have done this. I am saying that if He had done this then there would have been evidence that He did.

There is no evidence that He did. None. And those who insist that there is have been responsible for such fraud that even people like Aquila have abandoned that cause.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is another matter. If it did happened, what evidence should we expect to find? Eyewitness accounts? A significant stirring and cultural upheaval as the accounts spread?

Well, we do have evidence of that.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I heard or read something along those lines too. I believe that in the end we'll see that it wasn't so implausible.

Forget that "teacher" (the author of the Search for Truth Home Bible Study cited the same "information").

There are over 150 different species of elephants alone in the fossil record. If Noah took seven of every "clean" animal aboard then he would have had at least 1,050 elephants alone.

Add to that the food and water necessary to sustain them. Add to the the compartments needed to keep the T-Rex and and the other seven or eight hundred carnivorous dinosaurs away from the the elephants.

You're simply asking people to add foolishness to their faith. That's unfair. Why not accept the Bible on its own terms instead of trying to force a mere 200 year old form of eisegesis on everyone?