I received this Monday Sept. 19, 2005. It is a testimony by Barb Muenchen about her healing that happened 25 years before.
In 2004 when I found out I had prostate cancer I asked a lot of people to pray for me. One day Barb came up to me in the Vineyard Chapel and told me, "The name of Jesus is greater than any cancer." Then she told me about her bout with colon cancer in 1980 and how God had healed her. I had not heard that story before. She felt like she should tell me about it to encourage me and it was very encouraging. I have told that story to some people since then but I asked her if she would type it up for me and let me share it with others. She agreed and here it is. I hope it encourages you like it did me.
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Hi Jim,
So many things have come up lately I'll just have to trust that now is a great time to pass this on. Thank you for asking...its always valuable to reflect on God's goodness!
Several years ago, I was diagnosed with colon cancer. As I was young, many months passed before the doctor realized the problem. By the time I entered the hospital, I required several blood transfusions to restore my system before surgery. During the procedure, a grapefruit size malignant tumor was removed from my colon. It had passed through the colon wall and spread to several lymph nodes... My prognosis was very poor. I remember meeting the oncologist and the grim look on his face. He had told my family I would not live to see Christmas (the surgery was in March). Nevertheless, preparation was made to begin extensive radiation treatments as soon as possible.
To be sure, I had had much prayer by my friends and family. My first time back to church my pastor prayed for me again. I felt a warmth go from the bottom of my large incision to the top. It circled the area where many of the malignant lymph nodes had been found (and the place I had been marked in red for the radiation). The heat traveled back down to the bottom of my incision. I knew something profound had occurred.
I began the treatments with the same "must do" attitude I'd had for the surgery. I was very weak, however, following such major surgery, and as the treatments began, my weakness increased. I was scheduled to go five times a week for six weeks. I questioned if I would make it.
One morning I was in the hospital waiting for another treatment. This thought came to me "Trust Me to complete your healing." I knew God was speaking and only He knew what my body could endure. At that moment, my family doctor entered the waiting room. I quietly told him I would be stopping my treatments. He insisted I make an appointment to discuss this with him. I made the appointment, as well as one with the surgeon and the oncologist. All three men objected. The oncologist was the most insistent. I told him he had no guarantees for me. He said, "Life has no guarantees." Trying to be both respectful and appreciative, I simply said I would put my life in God's Hands... These were his parting words: "If I see you in the mall in six months, I'll believe in your miracle." That was early April1980!
And I would have to go with Timmy on this point and say this bothers me more than no one genuinely being healed. So would God just heal a few here and there and give us all false hope? I'm basically using his words, but I'll echo them because I relate.
Jesus didn't heal every sick person when he walked on earth.
Genuine, miraculous healings are few and far between. I don't know why.
Like I said, we've seen lots of people die that we've prayed for. There are some that we just have to figure that God's hand performed the healing.
One man we prayed for was named Herb. He was diabetic and had a foot injury from a nail that would not heal. The doctors wanted to amputate his foot. We only prayed for him once. I had never seen him before our visit to the hospital. Afterward I thought of him and wondered what happened to him. When I'd think of him, I would pray for him. One day Bob, my prayer partner, called me and asked, "Want to see a miracle?" Of course I answered in the affirmative and agreed to meet him in a part of the city I was not familiar with. We went into a small print shop and there was Herb beaming. He was probably in his sixties. A young doctor in the hospital insisted that he have his foot removed. Herb stalled him off for a while and when the doctor examined the foot he marveled at the healing that had taken place. The open wound had closed. The doctor noted, "There even is some evidence of new bone growth." Herb pulled off his shoe and sock and showed us his foot. Like I said, Herb was an elderly man but his foot was smooth like that of a baby. It reminded me of 2 Kings 5:14.
We prayed several times for a 5 year old who had been dragged by a horse and had head injuries and a broken spine. This was in the summer. The people at Children's Hospital told the family that if all went well they hoped to have her home by Thanksgiving. We made several trips to pray for her and saw improvement. First we saw that she was awake and out of a coma. Then she recognized her family members. Then she could pull herself up to a sitting position in her crib. Then she began to talk. Then she began to walk with help at first. She went home in time to start kindergarten at the end of August.
Another little girl was in a coma at Children's Hospital. I did not pray for her but some others did. One morning very early, someone on the prayer team woke up and began to intercede for her. They went to the hospital later that morning and prayed. They went back two more days in succession. She came out of the coma and was released. The people at Children's Hospital said that they had never in their history seen a child survive who was in her condition.
This is not to discount doctors, medicine, and medical procedures. They all played a part in these stories. Some times when I visit a person in the hospital I tell the nurse that we are all on the same team --God's healing team-- and we play different roles. Some times nurses join in the prayer.
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Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
For several years I have been on a prayer team that visits folks and prays for them in homes, hospitals, and nursing homes. I don't know how many we've prayed for over the years. I've never once seen someone jump out of a hospital bed and run down the hall shouting, "I'm healed! I'm healed!" Some folks that we have prayed for have later died. Some got well in time and some got well sooner than expected. There have been a few that there was no real explanation other than that God did it. We thank God for whatever happens and for however God heals and we keep on plugging along visiting, reading Scriptures, encouraging, and praying. I wish we saw more results and more dramatic results but I have to believe that God is a Healer because that is how I understand the Bible.
By the way, the guy I go on these visits with is a Roman Catholic who has been baptized in the Spirit and we read from his Roman Catholic Bible with the imprimatur inside the front cover and with the Apocrypha included. Some times we even read Ecclesiasticus 38 when we visit folks. I'm 72 and Bob is 71 so we tell folks we are "elders" according to James 5 and that we are a prayer team made up of a Catholic and a Pentecostal. Bob goes to the Vineyard Church (and some times to a Catholic Church) and I go to a church that would be considered by folks here to be Trinity Pentecostal or Charismatic.
Sam, appreciate your honesty. I've done the same thing for so long. I just keep plugging along, but I'm way more careful when I pray for folks. In fact, I don't really pray for healing as much as I pray for God's Will to be done. We all will DIE.
It cracks me up when older folks in church tell everyone, "Just let me GO!"
So, what do we do when they're taking their last breath, "OH GOD, SEND YOUR TOUCH! WE KNOW YOU CAN HEAL THEM!"
A big turning point for me regarding the healing issue was when years ago I heard this story. Someone came to the altar needing prayer for a horrible acne problem. The minister asked, "Do you drink soda pop?" The reply was "Yes, a couple six packs a day."
Well, I'm sure you know what the minister told this woman. You need to change your diet and to stop asking God for a "Touch" that will only enable your disease. I realize many of our ailments are self inflicted.
And I would have to go with Timmy on this point and say this bothers me more than no one genuinely being healed. So would God just heal a few here and there and give us all false hope? I'm basically using his words, but I'll echo them because I relate.
I've heard a gazillion claims. But I've never seen a paralyzed person jump up and walk. I'd like to see that.
Since Notforsale opened the door (thanks for having the guts), I'll admit that I don't preach healing that much. Maybe ever? Honesty time. I've never witnessed a healing. I don't feel comfortable creating false hope. Sure, I've heard the "God healed my back" claims and things that could never be documented.
But I absolutely HAVE seen God's hand at work in my life and I could tell the stories that I've witnessed myself. I've had visions that came true to the most finite detail. I've had ridiculous financial provisions. But healing? No.
The "False Hope" is the main reason I stay away from preaching divine healing. People can work themselves into a frenzy, and when it doesn't happen, that person can be worse off than before. Teaching folks that we just live with "Stuff" is honest and very real.
Like I told Sam, I keep it simple and just pray for God's Will, whatever that is.
I think we "Shoot ourselves in the foot" when we constantly go in circles with prayers that become vain in repetition.
It is proven, those who have a strong will to live, do. Even folks who don't have the type of Faith we may claim to have.
Great story, "It's Not About the Bike", by Lance Armstrong. If he was a Christian, they would be shouting, "Miracle". But since he isn't, we claim his strong will to live as the reason.
1. Natural healing. This is just the way we are made and our bodies some times heal themselves. One example is a cut that bleeds, then scabs over, then heals. Broken bones mend.
2. Assisted healing. Over time mankind has discovered ways to help the healing process. We set a bone properly, use pins and screws if necessary to hold it in place, put it in a cast and let the healing process take place. We've learned that certain antibiotics kill bacteria and certain medications can relieve pain. A verse for this is Proverbs 18:9 says, "He who does not use his endeavors to heal himself is brother to him who commits suicide" (See the Amplified Bible or an LXX version). Like I said before, we read Ecclesiasticus 38:1-15 to people some times where it speaks of God using doctors and medicines.
3. Accelerated healing. Some times people get well at a much faster rate than expected or than they would normally by the treatment. Or they recover beyond what was expected. We give God the glory for that.
4.Some times, rarely, there is no other explanation but that God did the healing. We can call that a miracle.
5. Ultimate healing. All healing is temporary. We will all die unless we are among the living when the rapture takes place. Some times a child of God leaves the suffering or broken body behind and goes to be with their Father in a place where there is no pain, sickness, limitations, or death. We call that ultimate healing.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
Boy, NotForSale.... I wish you were for sale, and that someone had bought you and carried you off! TIC.
Some of your posting has left me scratching my head. But boy this post blows me out of the water! Why? Because I relate to too much of it. We've quoted about the "signs that follow the believers" and then pick and choose which ones it's okay not to have and which ones we must have to keep from going to hell! Hello!
God bless you! I'm gonna read this post again! No wonder some of the old timers forbade us to do any thinking!
How many folks could really live up to this scripture... "1Pe 3:15* But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"
Been Thinkin
Religion does a whole bunch of "Cherry Pickin". Then, you know how it goes, "We've got the BING, and you DON'T".
Been Thinkin, as you can tell, I've been doing alot of that. God Bless!!
Also medicine and such are applied sciences. Evolution is theoretical.
The Bible does not "forbid" evolution either.
Evolution is observed daily. You yourself are an example of evolution when compared to your parents and offspring. Are you "theoretical?" You seem pretty real to me.
1. Natural healing. This is just the way we are made and our bodies some times heal themselves. One example is a cut that bleeds, then scabs over, then heals. Broken bones mend.
2. Assisted healing. Over time mankind has discovered ways to help the healing process. We set a bone properly, use pins and screws if necessary to hold it in place, put it in a cast and let the healing process take place. We've learned that certain antibiotics kill bacteria and certain medications can relieve pain. A verse for this is Proverbs 18:9 says, "He who does not use his endeavors to heal himself is brother to him who commits suicide" (See the Amplified Bible or an LXX version). Like I said before, we read Ecclesiasticus 38:1-15 to people some times where it speaks of God using doctors and medicines.
3. Accelerated healing. Some times people get well at a much faster rate than expected or than they would normally by the treatment. Or they recover beyond what was expected. We give God the glory for that.
4.Some times, rarely, there is no other explanation but that God did the healing. We can call that a miracle.
5. Ultimate healing. All healing is temporary. We will all die unless we are among the living when the rapture takes place. Some times a child of God leaves the suffering or broken body behind and goes to be with their Father in a place where there is no pain, sickness, limitations, or death. We call that ultimate healing.
1, 2, and 5 are pointless. They would happen whether or not God was involved (other than, possibly, in creation itself, having designed us the way we are, and given us brains to learn things like medical science). And 5 (death) would be taken as iron-clad proof, to any normal human being, that healing did not happen.
3 is iffy. How could we tell if God sped it up or if it was just good luck, and/or better than average medical care? People heal at different rates. Medication works better some times than other times, and for different people. Most likely, these are just variations on cases 1 and 2.
4 is the only interesting case. I think we are all agreed that these cases are very rare, if they do happen. But if and when they do happen, it would be impossible to say definitively that God did it, as opposed to some other, perhaps even supernatural, cause.
There is even Biblical support (though inadvertent, I suspect) for being skeptical of miracles! Healing is one particular type of miracle. Another type of miracle was used in Egypt, to "prove" that Moses and Aaron were the real deal: Aaron's rod turned into a serpent. But Pharaoh's magicians did the same thing! Did God do the same miracle for them, too? Well, we are obviously expected to say, "No, of course not! After all, Aaron's serpent gobbled up the magicians' serpents." But how is an observer of this spectacle supposed to judge the outcome? Just because Aaron's trick is more impressive than the magicians' trick, do we have to conclude that Aaron's miracle came from God, and the other guys' didn't? Well, what if it was instead a contest between David Copperfield and Criss Angel? Would the best one of those two have to be declared a Man of God, for doing the most amazing feats?
Stories of miraculous healings, especially those where the lucky recipient stops taking medications or doesn't follow doctors' advice, are dangerous, IMO. Most of the time, when people are "encouraged" by those stories to claim a healing of their own, the results are not as impressive.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Pel YOU might be able to question things in the Bible yet still believe it, but how many are questioning and can't find the answers they think they want and say it is not true, since it doesn't prove out according to their way of thinking?
I find it hard to believe you think you believe the bible more than I do when I am not the one questioning it. I don't see the need to question it. I believe it as written.
I would not want to be the stumbling block to cause someone to doubt the Word and therefore doubt God and become lost.
I think many of you are being deceived and "think" you are being dilengent in proving God's Word. I don't see where it needs proving. It has always been proven out.
As to the Reed Sea iinstead of the Red Sea is nonsense IMO. In fact, I heard Bro. Treece say he read where someone found the wheels from the chariots in the Red Sea, proving Moses crossed the Red Sea. That would dispell any Reed Sea, which I have never heard of.
I heard Bro. Treece say that Melchizedek built the Great Pyramid of Giza and that the Nephilim ("giants" Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 1:13:33) flew around in UFO type spacecraft and were responsible for the craters on the moon. He then described how he saw just such a spacecraft while out coon hunting one night and attempted to signal the thing with his headlamp. He said that one of the brothers with him asked what he was doing (being afraid of the "UFO"), Bro. Treece said, "I wanna ride on that thing! That's the same way we're going up in the rapture!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esther
What would be the miracle in crossing a marsh land?
The "miracle" would have been that Pharoah and his troops could not cross the same path that the Israelites had just crossed. That is, if you want to get your own self stuck in the marsh. I don't. Why are you arguing with someone else here?
Why should we get stuck on the "Reed Sea" versus "Red Sea" canard? Look up Exodus 13:18 and you will see that the Hebrew words used here are "Sooph Yawm." The word "sooph" means "reed" like what the "soopherim" ("Sopherim" - scribes) used to make papyrus out of. The Israelites crossed a body of water that they themselves called "The REED SEA."
There's a lot of junk at the bottom of the body of water that we call the Red Sea. There have been ships wrecking there since ships were first invented. See for example 1 Kings 22:48. Scattered chariot wheels and other military supplies have always been found throughout the region. There is no evidence that clearly identifies any particular find with the events described in Exodus 13 through 15. In fact, the chariot wheels found in the Gulf of Aqaba may even have been Jehoshaphat's He used chariots extensively (1 Kings 22:29-37).
* And just for the record... The "Sooph Sea" (REED SEA) mentioned in Exodus is the same body of water as that used by Jehoshaphat and Solomon (1 Kings 9:26-28) to sail to Ophir. The ancient "REED SEA" was clearly the large body of water that we today call the "RED SEA."
Misunderstandings like the one you are wrestling with here can actually be overcome by simply taking the Bible on its own terms. And, we don't have to resort to UFO mythology to establish the Bible's truths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esther
You need to be very careful you and others don't become deceived in trying to prove the Bible to be what it says.
I suspect that there's an innocent typo here... but this may also have been a "Freudian slip."
I am trying to be "careful" to "prove the Bible to be what it says!" There is no deception involved at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esther
I still say you either believe the Word of God or you don't. Believing it does not cause people to fast until they die. Some people do ignorant things and blame God all the time. That doesn't mean there is something wrong with the Bible nor God.
Again, I caution all of you to be careful in trying to "prove" the Bible to suit your own understandings.
Can't see that this is exactly what you are doing here yourself?
Every time a plea like this is made some poor soul ends up shrugging their shoulders and saying, "Oh well! I guess the Bible can't be true then..." and YOU end up wrecking the faith of millions.
Why do you demand that your methodology be accepted as the "only way?" You and Aquila both are arguing that we deny the reality that greets us each day we roll out of bed. Did God really create this universe just so that He could demand that we live in a dream world and deny the existence of His creation?
Your fundamentalism is directly responsible for the decline in the Christian faith - first in Europe and now in the United States. You make unreasonable demands that no thinking person could possibly swallow and then you say - "You either believe it or you don't!"
And so, our children, our young people and our entire society simply shrugs their shoulders and say, "Okay, you're explanations do make any sense, so I won't believe anything!"
And, we don't have to resort to UFO mythology to establish the Bible's truths.
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