Sinless Perfection

[Aquila]

In the end, those who believe in perfection will have fallen and relied on the very same grace and mercy to be saved as those who admit to being imperfect. The only difference is that one side admits to imperfection, and needing grace, while the other side doesn't.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Gimme a break Esaias. The thread was personal from the get-go. Stop whining about it being personal. The OP started personal.

I find it amusing that you spiritual keyboard warriors don't want to answer a simple question. Instead you hide behind excuses, complaining about the subject being made personal or claiming it's not relevant.

It is relevant, seeing as how the claim is being made that it's not only possible to live 100% sinless, but if one does not they are either still slaves to sin or their HG isn't strong enough or they may not even be saved!

So yes, it's relevant to the discussion.

When is the last time one of you spiritual keyboard warriors committed a sin? Have you been sinless since you been saved?

Of course they have! And, they'll never sin again, because it's no longer a part of their nature. Lol

The truth is that they have sinned, and yes, at some point, they will sin again, in spite of claiming sinlessness. Because though they deny it, that flesh in unchanged. Until glorification, sin remains in their members. And the same grace we boast in, is the same grace they'll call upon. In the end, we'll all be simply, saved by grace.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by n david

I'm not talking about what my Pastor teaches. Speaking of, do you even have a Pastor, Mike? What's God's standard for assembling with other believers?

Mike do you have an eldership in your church?

Originally Posted by n david

You never have a bad day. You never slip, never fail. I'm not talking about a daily occurrence.

This is a very important post. Does anyone else know what ndavid is saying here?

When Jesus tells the woman caught in adultery He tells her emphatically to go and sin no more. 1 John 3:7-8 states that those who practice righteousness are righteous, and those who practice sin are sinful. The Greek word ποιέω means to create, make, do something, or manufacture. Yet, having a bad day, is still left up to our freewill, and mostly linked up to our maturity of full age. Immaturity causes 'reactions" instead of responses. Again, our choices can be life or death choices, and not everyone has the luxury of being placed in those positions. Therefore having a "bad day" can be easier to reach and get through. For instance, you are having a bad day, and you are pulled over by a State Trooper. Your bad day could go either way, it will be up to your life choices. State Trooper comes up to your window and asks for license and registration. You tell him to drop dead you filthy pig. Or something like that. Now, it is up to him to make choices, he can remain in his human discipline, and ask you for your information again. Or he can mace you, with other not so nice things on the list. This isn't about some religious adaptation of Ecclesiastical Stepford Wives, with creepy 1,000 yard stares that would curdle milk. This is about separation from who we were, to who He is now. I believe this subject is like the proverbial red flag in front of the bull. People get the wrong idea and message. It is a pendulum of extreems where we are either sinlessly saved, or sinfully saved.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't disagree with that.

My only point is, while our spirit is regenerated and our minds have been washed with the Word, the flesh, our bodies, have yet to be changed. We must control the flesh, give no room to it, because it's still fallen, and has a sinful nature.

Until glorification, we'll have this war between the Spirit and the flesh.

Flesh isn't your skin dude. It is your mind, therefore a child is innocent, a mentally retarded person has no idea what they are doing. But you all are flesh and bone. The war is in your mind, meaning your members. Hence be ye telios as your Father in heaven is telios, can be achieved. As long as you don't give into your immaturity and go after that your FATHER hates.

[houston]

gah, didn’t realize this was a public poll.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Jesus tells them to be perfect as their heavenly Father is perfect. His statement isn't buttressed with after your body is glorified. I have a sister who use to cop out with the saying "I'm still in this sinful flesh" Until she learned that there was no Bible for someone to remain immature "a babe in Christ" A.K.A new convert to continue in sin that grace may abode. You have to grow up, and move forward. Christianity becomes a religion of cripples instead of victors

[Aquila]

I can't tell you how many people have cried to me in private, totally discouraged, believing God hates them, questioning their faith, and on the edge of just giving up, because they were taught that they must never sin again, and that if they were really saved, their sin nature was eradicated. Enter the doctrine of grace.... I've seen grace change lives, and produce a loving holiness that overcomes through Christ and not the works of the law. When one finally understands the ontology of soteriology, they begin to understand what they're up against. Why they still have the propensity to sin, why they still fall from time to time, what must be done to recover, how recovery works, and how grace can empower them to get up and overcome.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by n david

Gimme a break Esaias. The thread was personal from the get-go. Stop whining about it being personal. The OP started personal.

I find it amusing that you spiritual keyboard warriors don't want to answer a simple question. Instead you hide behind excuses, complaining about the subject being made personal or claiming it's not relevant.

It is relevant, seeing as how the claim is being made that it's not only possible to live 100% sinless, but if one does not they are either still slaves to sin or their HG isn't strong enough or they may not even be saved!

So yes, it's relevant to the discussion.

When is the last time one of you spiritual keyboard warriors committed a sin? Have you been sinless since you been saved?

I hope your day is blessed.

[n david]

Originally Posted by n david

When is the last time one of you spiritual keyboard warriors committed a sin? Have you been sinless since you been saved?

Originally Posted by Esaias

I hope your day is blessed.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I can't tell you how many people have cried to me in private, totally discouraged, believing God hates them, questioning their faith, and on the edge of just giving up, because they were taught that they must never sin again, and that if they were really saved, their sin nature was eradicated. Enter the doctrine of grace.... I've seen grace change lives, and produce a loving holiness that overcomes through Christ and not the works of the law. When one finally understands the ontology of soteriology, they begin to understand what they're up against. Why they still have the propensity to sin, why they still fall from time to time, what must be done to recover, how recovery works, and how grace can empower them to get up and overcome.

This is why it is impossible to have a discussion with you. What does any of that have to do with what is being posted? Who is talking about the works of human discipline? Chris, you are talking about yourself, the so called ones in private? Bro, Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to sin no more. Not to sin less, but cease from sin. That is what I got ndavid's statement, not to do it every day, meaning to practice it. To create it, to manufacture it.