Are Infants Really Born Sinless?

[Jacob's Ladder]

Greetings to all posters.

I was browsing the "eternal/temporary torture" thread and read where someone suggested infants are born innocent? I do understand the sensitivity of an infant's death and their eternal status. However, are infants really born "innocent?

We've read that, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Romans 5:12), and we also know, "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23).

If infants were born innocent and/or sinless, they would be "per-se" a duplication of Jesus. Yes, Jesus was sinless, but in order for Jesus to die, he had to become sin. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God ( 2nd Corinthians 5:21).

Thus, Jesus' murderer wasn't any individual but rather sin killed Him. If a child was born sinless, he/she would be exempt from Romans 5:12. Therefore, infants aren't sinless.

[Cindy]

I don't agree that infants sin. They can't willfully disobey God.

[Jacob's Ladder]

Originally Posted by Cindy

I don't agree that infants sin. They can't willfully disobey God.

I respect your opinion. However, Romans 5:12 clearly states "death by sin;" "and so death passed upon all men." Death is existant due to sin. According to the scripture, death is passed upon all men (infants included because of the flesh) because of sin. Whether infant or adult, death is due to the sinful nature.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

Greetings to all posters.

I was browsing the "eternal/temporary torture" thread and read where someone suggested infants are born innocent? I do understand the sensitivity of an infant's death and their eternal status. However, are infants really born "innocent?

We've read that, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Romans 5:12), and we also know, "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23).

If infants were born innocent and/or sinless, they would be "per-se" a duplication of Jesus. Yes, Jesus was sinless, but in order for Jesus to die, he had to become sin. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God ( 2nd Corinthians 5:21).

Thus, Jesus' murderer wasn't any individual but rather sin killed Him. If a child was born sinless, he/she would be exempt from Romans 5:12. Therefore, infants aren't sinless.

He doesn't say "All are born with sin"...Paul sad "All HAVE sinned"

So what is sin? Sin is the breaking of God's laws. What Law of God does an infant break? None...yet. But as they grow older they will sin

Mat 19:13 Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people,
Mat 19:14 but Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven."

Mat 18:2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them
Mat 18:3 and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

You also err in saying "in order for Jesus to die he had to become sin"..the bible does not say that.

He became a sin offering for us. He was our sacrificial lamb on whom all the sins of the world were put on. He did no sin. He was not a sinner. You quoted the right verse but it does not say "in order to die".

A child IS born sinless until they commit SIN. But they are not except because death came by one man on to ALL men.

That is where the sin NATURE comes in. Children, not having sinned yet, WILL sin because they have Adam's fallen sin nature. The only one able to resist the fallen sin nature and succumbed to sinning was Jesus

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

I respect your opinion. However, Romans 5:12 clearly states "death by sin;" "and so death passed upon all men." Death is existant due to sin. According to the scripture, death is passed upon all men (infants included because of the flesh) because of sin. Whether infant or adult, death is due to the sinful nature.

You are not only taking the verse out of context but you are ignoring part of that verse

Rom 5:12 Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed on all men inasmuch as all sinned:

Notice that word 'and'? That is a conjunction that connects two related thoughts,

Sin entered into the world by one man AND death by sin. Because of the sin of Adam ALL men will die

And now here is the context

Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
Rom 5:16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.
Rom 5:17 If, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

See? Death was the result of one man's sin..Adam

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

Greetings to all posters.

I was browsing the "eternal/temporary torture" thread and read where someone suggested infants are born innocent? I do understand the sensitivity of an infant's death and their eternal status. However, are infants really born "innocent?

We've read that, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Romans 5:12), and we also know, "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23).

If infants were born innocent and/or sinless, they would be "per-se" a duplication of Jesus. Yes, Jesus was sinless, but in order for Jesus to die, he had to become sin. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God ( 2nd Corinthians 5:21).

Thus, Jesus' murderer wasn't any individual but rather sin killed Him. If a child was born sinless, he/she would be exempt from Romans 5:12. Therefore, infants aren't sinless.

Infants definitely have fallen human nature (sinful nature). However, said nature hasn't manifest active sin against the creator. Thus they are "innocent of sin" against God. If allowed to live, their sin nature will eventually manifest active sin against God.

So with regards to nature infants are sinful beings.
With regards to action infants are sinless beings.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

I respect your opinion. However, Romans 5:12 clearly states "death by sin;" "and so death passed upon all men." Death is existant due to sin. According to the scripture, death is passed upon all men (infants included because of the flesh) because of sin. Whether infant or adult, death is due to the sinful nature.

First can i ask you what sin a child has commited.
Death came into the world cause adam sinned.

Now lets continue on with the context of verses and not try to abuse one with using the rest of the word of God.

2samuel 12
22 He answered, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, ‘Who knows? The LORD may be gracious to me and let the child live.’ 23 But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”

Obvious that David thought the Child would go some were that he himself could follow. David being a rightous man didnt plan on going to hell. so one can assume with Confidence the Child was going back to God.



Mark 10:13-16 ESV
And they were bringing children to him that he might touch them, and the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.” And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them.

amazing That God thought the kids belong to heaven


Last Part How can one Be judged by the word if they never heard it?
romans 7:9
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Jesus also stated
John 15:22

If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.

If some one wants to condem babies to hell, then i would say you would be a child of your father the Devil. Cause God said Children belong to heaven.

Matthew 19:14
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

[stony ground]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Infants definitely have fallen human nature (sinful nature). However, said nature hasn't manifest active sin against the creator. Thus they are "innocent of sin" against God. If allowed to live, their sin nature will eventually manifest active sin against God.

So with regards to nature infants are sinful beings.
With regards to action infants are sinless beings.

I agree. Children are born innocent and without sins, as Adam & Eve were innocent in the beginning. Children have free will, and thus the capacity (even the predilection) to sin, as did Adam and Eve.

[Jacob's Ladder]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

He doesn't say "All are born with sin"...Paul sad "All HAVE sinned"

So what is sin? Sin is the breaking of God's laws. What Law of God does an infant break? None...yet. But as they grow older they will sin

Praxeas:

Does Paul's comment of "all have sinned" refer to humanity as a whole (every breathing human being on Earth), or is "all" referring to only individuals that have surpassed infancy? Romans 3:23 reads, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." I'm sure you'll agree the"all" refers to all of mankind.


We read in Job 15:14, "What is man, that he could be pure, or one born of woman, that he could be righteous?" There isn't one person that's pure/righteous, regardless of their age. Through Adam's sin all humanity lost their righteousness, and righteousness can only be obtained through Christ, according to Paul.

You suggested above that infants can't sin until they age. Paul states in Philippians that righteousness comes through faith in Christ. If infants are too young to be sinners, then surely they're too young to believe and become righteous through Christ and by Christ. What then, are infants righteous or unrighteous? Throughout scripture we read Jesus refers to the righteous and unrighteous, there is no in-between.

Furthermore, David states in Psalms 51:5, "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." In David's psalm he reflects on his life and openly admits being a sinner at birth. David isn't referencing his mother creating him while committing adultery.

In Psalms 86:16 David prays to God, "Turn to me and have mercy on me; grant your strength to your servant and save the son of your maidservant"

Here David plainly indicated his mother was God's maidservant, a women who devoted and committed her life to God. In Psalms 51:5, David plainly stated he was in sin at birth.

I've posted enough scripture to defend my stance. I now ask that you post scriptures identifying infants as being sinless until a certain age is reached.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Mat 19:13 Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people,
Mat 19:14 but Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven."
Mat 18:2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them
Mat 18:3 and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

This scriptures don't imply children are sinless. It refers to humility a believer must possess as of a child.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You also err in saying "in order for Jesus to die he had to become sin"..the bible does not say that.

He became a sin offering for us. He was our sacrificial lamb on whom all the sins of the world were put on. He did no sin. He was not a sinner. You quoted the right verse but it does not say "in order to die".

Jesus bore our sins. He took personal possession of our sins as his own sins so we could be declared righteous. He became sin.

[Jacob's Ladder]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

See? Death was the result of one man's sin..Adam

We are in agreement, man became mortal due to disobedience.