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Old 01-22-2009, 03:36 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Let Us Make Man: The Revelation

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Originally Posted by HaShaliach View Post
Good points. Yet, as to the plurality application of the word: See Ex 12:12, Gen 35:2,4; De 29:18, 32:17 and sometimes both Jehovah and and other gods are identified as in Ps 86:8, Ex 18:11, 22:19.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion around this term.
I have went to lengths to demonstrate THE ELOHIM I an talking about. His name is YHWH but is called Elohim many times.

Others are called Elohim.

But I am writing about THE ELOHIM of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.

The one portrayed for us right here.

And he blessed Joseph, and said, ELOHIM, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the ELOHIM which fed me all my life long unto this day,
16: The ANGEL which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth. Gen. 48:15-16

If someone is confused there you have it. The Elohim who is the God of the Bible is the one Jacob knew. Not other Elohim.

This ELOHIM which Jacob called The Angel which redeemed me from all evil.

This is THE ELOHIM who said "let us make man after our image and likeness".
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Old 01-22-2009, 03:57 PM
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Re: Let Us Make Man: The Revelation

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Originally Posted by HaShaliach View Post
I thought I would also include the following from a text that I have been studying. Yes, I am still a student!

This is just one example of how difficult Hebrew really is, and how there can be so many “correct” ways to translate it into English (even into Greek). It also points out the extreme difficulty in studying the original intent of the N.T. writers, when the Greek has to be read and understood though its Hebrew world view – as illustrated by translating back through the Septuagint.

Special note: Even the Septuagint has its own set of problems. When using this document in the translation process, use only the Torah portion, as that is the most reliable Hebrew/Greek translation. The rest of the Tanakh contains many errors and is generally considered unreliable for translation purposes.

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Abstract vs. concrete thought

Greek thought views the world through the mind (abstract thought). Ancient Hebrew thought views the world through the senses (concrete thought).

Concrete thought is the expression of concepts and ideas in ways that can be seen, touched, smelled, tasted and/or heard. All five of the senses are used when speaking, hearing, writing and reading the Hebrew language. An example of this can be found in Psalms 1:3; “He is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in season, and whose leaf does not wither”. In this passage the author expresses his thoughts in concrete terms such as; tree, streams of water, fruit and leaf.

Abstract thought is the expression of concepts and ideas in ways that cannot be seen, touched, smelled, tasted or heard. Abstract thought is a foreign concept to the Ancient Hebrew mind. Examples of Abstract thought can be found in Psalms 103:8; “The LORD is compassionate and gracious, Slow to anger, abounding in love”. The words compassion, grace, anger and love are all abstract words, ideas that cannot be experienced by the senses. Why do we find these abstract words in a passage of concrete thinking Hebrews? Actually, these are abstract English words [are] used to translate the original Hebrew concrete words. The translators often translate this way because the original Hebrew makes no sense when literally translated into English.

Let us take one of the above abstract words to demonstrate the translation from a concrete Hebrew word to an abstract English word. Anger, an abstract word, is actually the Hebrew word [pictorial letters] / awph which literally means “nose”, a concrete word. When one is very angry, he begins to breath hard and the nostrils begin to flare. A Hebrew sees anger as “the flaring of the nose (nostrils)”. If the translator literally translated the above passage “slow to nose”, the English reader would not understand.

Ancient Hebrew Language and Alphabet, pg 21-22 by Jeff A. Benner

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Conclusion: One must take great care in the selection and application of Bible study tools and techniques employed for purpose of leaning, understanding, and teaching others. Generally speaking, the standard English translations that we have at our disposal today serves us all quite well. However, for those who would be teachers of the word, and would desire to teach the deeper meanings of God word and expose the spiritual insights, truths and mysteries that are contained within these holy writings, employing the western world view as the prime filter in deciphering and understanding God’s word, will almost always lead to doctrinal error! Let there not be many masters (teachers) are not just idle words.

The state of the church, the body of Jesus Christ in the world today, stands as the premier witness against our teachers, as well as against us also! Why “us” and not just our teachers? Because we have not held our teachers accountable, even as Paul held Peter publicly accountable at Antioch, and as the assembly at Berea held Paul accountable in their own turn. It is past time that the body of Christ demands that teachers cease presenting and imposing their limited knowledge of scripture and personal agendas as the revealed will, instruction and purpose of God.

Biblical answer to unrepentant false teachers, shepherds and prophets: Upon the testimony of two or more witnesses before the assembled congregation, reject them (put them out of the assembly) and have nothing more to do with them.

Admonishment: Before taking such a drastic action, one better be absolutely convinced of the correctness of their actions, lest they in turn face the congregation in judgment for bearing false witness/testimony before God and man. It is kind of a spiritual checks and balances that we have failed to effectively use in the past.

I forget where I heard it regarding Hebrew, but I was told that Hebrew was a very concrete and visual language. If you could see it, you could say it. In contrast to Greek. That is why NT scholars who rely mainly on their knowledge of Greek and Greek thought to correctly translate the Hebrew scriptures written in Greek often make huge conceptual mistakes....the godhead being, probably the biggest, IMO.
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