Rico, not exactly. I am sure you have seen the "Flex Car"? and the E80 pumps? those are the kind of cars that can run on high ethenol gas. we have them, but they are only a couple of years on the market.
it will be a while before the majority of the american fleet is switched over.... us used car buyers will take a while to come around...
Yes, I have seen the E85 pumps. In fact, a station in Terre Haute, where I used to live, was one of the first ones in Indiana to get a pump just for E85. What I meant by my post is that we are not mass producing those kinds of cars yet.
I think we need to put an end to corn based ethanol and transition over to sugar cane based ethanol. We can solve supply issues by removing the tariff on imported Brazillian ethanol until we can get our own cane based industry up and running. This would give the industry time to plant crops, get plants built and operational, and give consumers a much needed break from the pressure corn based ethanol has put on the cost of food. The price of sugar might go up in all this, but I think that is something we could handle, given the breaks we'd get on the price of beef, chicken, pork, and anything else we use corn for (which I believe is much more than what we are using cane sugar for).
I think we need to put an end to corn based ethanol and transition over to sugar cane based ethanol. We can solve supply issues by removing the tariff on imported Brazillian ethanol until we can get our own cane based industry up and running. This would give the industry time to plant crops, get plants built and operational, and give consumers a much needed break from the pressure corn based ethanol has put on the cost of food. The price of sugar might go up in all this, but I think that is something we could handle, given the breaks we'd get on the price of beef, chicken, pork, and anything else we use corn for (which I believe is much more than what we are using cane sugar for).
I agree with getting rid of corn ethenol. it is bad policy and a tax on the poorest people in the world.
But I am not so sure Cane is the answer. Frist of all, Brazil isnt exactly capable of producing much more cane than they are now and they basically use all theirs for their own gas production.
Second, raising the price of sugar, raises the price of every item where sugar is used. the impact is very wide.
third, every acre not currently being used for the production of sugar, that will be used for production of Ethanol Cane, is an acre of land previously used for the production of some other food/feed crop.
we are talking about millions of acres of land. and thus we impact, costs associated with corn, soybean, sorgum, etc. You still end up with inflation on food stuffs.
Cane to ethanol has some potential but there are still other things that are far superior.
Algae is my personal bet. You can use currently unfarmable desert waistland to produce it. You can use salt water or sewage, so you dont impact water tables. The total production is in the tens of thousands of gallons per acre as opposed to hundreds of gallons per acre. Corn is around 300 gallons per acre per year and sugar cane is around 660 per acre.)
Algae also can be produced into the types of gas we use now, AND the celulose from the dried out algae that is left over, can then be further refined into the same kind of ehtanol as corn and cane.
Algae technology is behind these others but is swiftly catching up.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I agree with getting rid of corn ethenol. it is bad policy and a tax on the poorest people in the world.
But I am not so sure Cane is the answer. Frist of all, Brazil isnt exactly capable of producing much more cane than they are now and they basically use all theirs for their own gas production.
Second, raising the price of sugar, raises the price of every item where sugar is used. the impact is very wide.
third, every acre not currently being used for the production of sugar, that will be used for production of Ethanol Cane, is an acre of land previously used for the production of some other food/feed crop.
we are talking about millions of acres of land. and thus we impact, costs associated with corn, soybean, sorgum, etc. You still end up with inflation on food stuffs.
Cane to ethanol has some potential but there are still other things that are far superior.
Algae is my personal bet. You can use currently unfarmable desert waistland to produce it. You can use salt water or sewage, so you dont impact water tables. The total production is in the tens of thousands of gallons per acre as opposed to hundreds of gallons per acre. Corn is around 300 gallons per acre per year and sugar cane is around 660 per acre.)
Algae also can be produced into the types of gas we use now, AND the celulose from the dried out algae that is left over, can then be further refined into the same kind of ehtanol as corn and cane.
Algae technology is behind these others but is swiftly catching up.
Ferd, my understanding, according to the wikipedia article, is that the Brazillians have more than enough of their ethanol available to export. I might have the figures mixed up, but I think it said they are only using 40% of what they are producing and exporting the rest. One of the reasons they aren't exporting as much to the US is because of a tariff the US government has placed on it of $.54 a gallon. Remove that tariff and it would open the door for them to send us more, and it could also help lower the price of fuel for us.
Also, I don't know how many acres of ground are available to grow sugar cane. I know the article said Texas is one of the states where sugar cane will grow. I seriously doubt they would run out of room in a state that large for growing it. In other words, they could use ground that isn't currently being used to grow anything for growing the sugar cane.
I remember the article you posted on algae based oil. I got the impression they are years away from making it cost effective. I think it would be a good alternative eventually, but the technology for sugar cane based ethanol production, at a reasonable cost, already exists and is in use. In fact, I read where the plants themselves use the products produced from the sugar cane to generate all their own electricity and even sell some back into their country's electric grid. It seems like a win win situation for everyone involved.
No matter how we look at it, I think it's safe to say that corn based ethanol is proving to cause more problems than it solves. I remember reading about warnings from those opposed to us heading in this direction, because they felt we were only going in this direction to help the corn lobby get rich. It seems those objections are proving to have been warranted.
Ferd, my understanding, according to the wikipedia article, is that the Brazillians have more than enough of their ethanol available to export. I might have the figures mixed up, but I think it said they are only using 40% of what they are producing and exporting the rest. One of the reasons they aren't exporting as much to the US is because of a tariff the US government has placed on it of $.54 a gallon. Remove that tariff and it would open the door for them to send us more, and it could also help lower the price of fuel for us.
Also, I don't know how many acres of ground are available to grow sugar cane. I know the article said Texas is one of the states where sugar cane will grow. I seriously doubt they would run out of room in a state that large for growing it. In other words, they could use ground that isn't currently being used to grow anything for growing the sugar cane.
I remember the article you posted on algae based oil. I got the impression they are years away from making it cost effective. I think it would be a good alternative eventually, but the technology for sugar cane based ethanol production, at a reasonable cost, already exists and is in use. In fact, I read where the plants themselves use the products produced from the sugar cane to generate all their own electricity and even sell some back into their country's electric grid. It seems like a win win situation for everyone involved.
No matter how we look at it, I think it's safe to say that corn based ethanol is proving to cause more problems than it solves. I remember reading about warnings from those opposed to us heading in this direction, because they felt we were only going in this direction to help the corn lobby get rich. It seems those objections are proving to have been warranted.
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