Hey Ferd. You will like this.

[Rico]

I saw a report on TV a few days ago about Brazil and its efforts to make ethanol. Turns out they make it from sugar cane. It has proven to be a success for that country. With the apparent failure of corn based ethanol looming, I think maybe it would be a good idea for us to take a look at making ethanol from sugar cane instead of corn. I don't know if our land will support the growth of enough sugar cane to get it accomplished, but I did read on Yahoo that Florida bought the land from our largest sugar cane producer. Here's a link to what wikipedia has to say about sugar cane based ethanol.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

[OnenessWoman]

Louisiana has sugar cane...

[Rico]

Originally Posted by OnenessWoman

Louisiana has sugar cane...

Ya. The wikipedia article named all the states where sugar cane can be grown. Florida, Hawaii, and Weezyrana are three that are mentioned. Can't remember the other ones off the top of my head.

[Mosby48]

The articles I've read say cane ethenol (?) is higher octane and is using a product that doesn't interfere with our food chain. I also read where some cities (St. Louis is one) are producing energy by incinerating garbage. Two fold help, no garbage and usable energy.

[Sister Alvear]

our cane ethenol is quite expensive here but it works...

[Ferd]

Cain is pretty good as far as gallons per acre. Corn is HORRIBLE.

there are several new technologies out there that are starting to change the paradigm.

Scientists are looking at turning woody fiber into sucrose to process into ethanol. that would be a huge advancement.

others are working on a new genetically engineered microbe that will turn sucrose into a new form of diesel directly. this is a very new and potentially HUGE advancement. these guys are saying they can produce Diesel at $50 a barrel.

Algae is still IMHO the really great answer provided the kinks can be worked out.

and there is still huge potential from advancements in using Compressed air to drive a car motor. this could really be the big deal in moving away from typical internal combustion engines.

[Traci]

Would we have to get new cars to use these other types of fuels?

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Traci

Would we have to get new cars to use these other types of fuels?

We already have cars that will run on a blend of ethanol and gasoline, but not the kind what will run exclusively on ethanol. The technology already exists, and is being used in countries like Brazil, but it is not being used here in the States.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Traci

Would we have to get new cars to use these other types of fuels?

well, you have to have a car that will run on 80% ethinol to run high ehtinol (E80) gas.

You would have to buy a car that runs a compressed air engine. (There is a company coming out with a 6 person van for the US Market in 2009 or 2010 at a cost of $15,700. )

Algae is likely to be able to produce a form of both Diesel and Gasoline that can run in current cars/trucks/airplanes. this would still be a "green" fuel because it takes carbon from the atomosphere and returns it to the atomosphere when it is burned so it is considered Zero emmision.

The new microbe technology will also create a zero emmision fuel that will run in current cars/truck/airplanes.


there are a couple of other sources that are starting to come on line. Jutropha is a plant that produces a seed that has an extremely high oil consentration that can be made into fuel. India is heavily invested in this and Florida farmers are starting to plant it. there will have to be some technology advances to make it really work.

Tallow trees are also a high producer of oil. these trees come from China but are all over the U. S. South. Some are starting to talk about plantations of Tallow trees to produce an oil that can be turned into fuel that can be used in current cars.

There is a lot of stuff being worked on but we are realistically 10 to 20 years away from those things having a big impact. until then we need more drilling.

another thing, besides Algae, every one of these solutions either reqire a food crop to make gas (driving up the cost of food) or have to be grown on land already being used to produce food....

Jutropha is a bit different. it can be grown on marginal lands and in places like India, it really is a great crop for arid areas but any that is grown in America will almost certainly replace a food crop.

My personal view is any solution should not impact food crops.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Rico

We already have cars that will run on a blend of ethanol and gasoline, but not the kind what will run exclusively on ethanol. The technology already exists, and is being used in countries like Brazil, but it is not being used here in the States.

Rico, not exactly. I am sure you have seen the "Flex Car"? and the E80 pumps? those are the kind of cars that can run on high ethenol gas. we have them, but they are only a couple of years on the market.

it will be a while before the majority of the american fleet is switched over.... us used car buyers will take a while to come around...