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Originally Posted by OP_Carl
And use caution. Watch them to see if they are truly allowing God to change them.
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So, you're saying that they can never really be welcomed into the body of Christ? Where does the BIBLE say you have to do this? I get so sick of the evil hearts in so many Christians today that insist on NOT TRUSTING GOD TO CHANGE SINNERS!!!!
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I’m not sure where you’re coming from, here. Christianity has a problem with
too much acceptance of sin, and
not enough excommunication. Not the other way around.
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I agree that we should reach out to homosexuals, and that they can be saved.
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I doubt that you agree because of what you said at the beginning of your post!
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At least this helps me to understand you a little better.
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Yes, and you obviously don't trust God to break the pattern. Another old pattern that dies hard is the sinful nature that every human has. Should we all be going around watching each other to make sure that we're all "allowing" God to change us (as if He needs our permission)?
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Yes.
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The mainstream presentation of homosexuals is that of witty, successful, and monogamous people.
Many do present themselves that way, just as many heterosexuals do.
The truth is a little more seedy.
Just like for heterosexuals.
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Where? The mainstream of our society and our media glorify the first, and actively seek to discredit the institutions of the second.
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Homosexuals have a greater propensity for multiple partners and child predation than do heterosexuals.
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What PROOF do you have of this? Where is the evidence that there are more children molested by adults of the same sex than by adults of the opposite sex? Also, if it's prepubescent children being molested then the perpetrators are not of either heterosexual or homosexual orientation, they are of pedophile orientation, meaning that they have a sexual/romantic attraction to prepubescent children.
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The statistics are uncovered in
The marketing of evil by David Kupelian. I recommend it.
The population of child molesters has a higher percentage of homosexuals than the population at large. If a person is a homosexual, they are statistically more likely to consider pedophilia or pederasty than a heterosexual.
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I'm not making a blanket statement
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No, just evil unsubstantiated statements (your statement "Watch them to see if they are truly allowing God to change them" was evil because it is saying that it doesn't matter what God does in their lives, we're never going to trust them).
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I’ve been called a lot of things in my 35 years, but this is the first time I’ve been called evil. I would not have much use for a pastor or church that take no interest in the spiritual development of new converts.
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just suggesting there is greater risk.
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Nonsense!!!! You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about.
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How do the hollering of 'nonsense' and accusations of cluelessness help prove your point and disprove mine?
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NEITHER HETEROSEXUALS NOR HOMOSEXUALS ARE ATTRACTED TO PREPUBESCENT CHILDREN, PEDOPHILES ARE!!!!
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I am attempting to address this, above, and will do so a little more later on.
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Cross-dressers and transvestites, usually homosexual, present an especially pernicious problem. They might be dressed as a woman, or have the body of a woman, but there in the ladies room they are looking at your little daughter with a man's eyes. How are you going to deal with that?
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Cross-dressers ARE transvestites! More proof that you don't know what you're talking about. And if it's a man dressed as a woman in the ladies room looking at someone's teen daughter with a man's eyes, the man is a heterosexual (like a great many cross-dressers).
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Transsexuals. I used the wrong word. It’s a good thing you were ready to jump in here and point that out for me.
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I know there is not a simple solution. But just as I believe that we shouldn't send children into physical battle in the U.S. Army, I believe that we shouldn't send children into spiritual battle either.
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The solution is simple: repent of the wickedness that is in your heart, let God be God, and receive into His body those whom He has forgiven!
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You are one fun dude! Let’s talk about children, harm to children, and negligence:
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Churches should have plans in place to deal with this, in the interest of protecting the children and the corporate liability for crimes that take place on church property where negligence can be proved.
Don't give me that "protecting the children" garbage!!!! You're basically saying that even though God forgives certain sinners we will continue to treat them as if they're still in their sin and as if God has not forgiven them! This attitude of yours is just plain evil because you slap God in the face and say to Him, "You can forgive anyone you want but don't expect us to treat them as forgiven."
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Are you going to sacrifice your children's safety, health, purity, and possible future salvation in the interests of not offending a sexual deviant? In the interests of not interrupting their spiritual journey, hoping that this season of repentance will be the final one?
Translation: it doesn't matter that God has forgiven their sin and started a healing work in them, our job is to treat them with contempt and suspicion, never really welcoming them into the body of Christ.
There is a reason child molesters are stealthy and secretive: they know that even Holy-Ghost-filled preachers can become stone-cold triggermen when they find out somebody has been messing with their kids.
You do realize that this thread is about HOMOSEXUALS and NOT PEDOPHILES, don't you?
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Here is the trouble:
1) You are either unaware or unwilling to acknowledge that there is a good deal of overlap between the two categories of homosexuals and pedophiles.
2) You don’t place sufficient priority on protecting children already in the congregation, and preserving their innocence.
3) You don’t understand that your church can be litigated out of existence if a molestation takes place on the church property. You have not been exposed to the concepts of risk evaluation and management.
4) You have responded as though this topic presses a hot button for you. I recommend you take a breather and take a second glance. You’ll be better served by calm and objectivity.
5) I suspect that you have bought into the world’s view of alternative lifestyles, and possibly even have bought into some of the propaganda pushed by the homosexual activists themselves. They
want our children. Be fervent for Jesus, not gay rights.
I hope you don't mind my making some assumptions about you in this list. You certainly have made some assumptions about me!
If the building catches on fire, it’s over quickly, one way or another. But sexual abuse is passed from one generation to the next in endless cycles. Today’s child victims are tomorrow’s adult abusers. Preventing abuse prevents obstacles to salvation from forming in multiple generations. It is deeply disconcerting to find
you think that protecting the children is
garbage. Matthew 18:6
The courts will find the leadership of the church negligent and therefore liable for harm done to children in the church, when reasonable precautions
aren’t taken. By extension, all the
responsible adults are morally culpable when this happens. I believe God sees it this way. Even the courts do.
I haven't said, nor will I, that I am in favor of ostracization of homosexuals.
My position isn't based on hatred for homosexuals. It is based on the unparalleled love a man has for his children. And it is based on empathy for my brothers and sisters, whom I presume also love their children.
Don't be a sheep. Be a sheepdog.
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