Deep Apostolic Teachers?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I am reminded of an interpetation of tongues I heard in the hills when I was a boy "yea I say this is he who words are written in red."

Nice to talk to you Bro. Epley. It's always a pleasure and very engaging. However, I want to point something out to you... the utterance reads... "words are written in red". That's present tense. And in our Bibles today those words are written in red. And even if the statement was past tense, "were written in red", Christ's words have been written in red for a couple generations now. So neither would disqualify the utterance from being authentic. Now, if it said, "Yeah, I say, this is He whose words were originally written in red", you'd have a point.

So this phrase doesn't disqualify the utterance. If it had biblical substance... you might do well to heed it before criticizing the Spirit.

Another point to be made is that while the Spirit speaks through us, He is speaking through human beings. Often the interpretation is limited by the interpreter's vocabulary. There have been times when I interpreted an utterance and later that night realized that I could have used better words to express the meaning of the message contained in the utterance. This inherent limitation within interpreting an utterance prevents us from declaring any prophetic utterance infallible, writing them down, and creating another volume of infallible Scriptures. Therefore, even if an interpreter clearly botches up the interpretation... we do well to consider its validity and the limitations of the interpreter while seeking to understand it.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Pay your tithes you cheap skate.

You ain't right. lol

[Sean]

Originally Posted by phareztamar

Wow Sean. Been reading some of your bizzare rants against tithing. You certainly don't lack passion for your position.

I've always given a tithe on my earnings. While it was an Old Testament principle that God invented, it seemed to be a good principle in the new also. Nobody ever forced, coerced, or threatened hell fire if I didn't offer tithes. It just seemed to me an excellent principle for financing the work of the ministry. I always felt honored to give my tithe, and gave it reverently, as unto the Lord. And I always trembled for the man of God, that he was now accountable for the use of those funds, in the work of the kingdom.

Besides the tithe, I have also had the privilage of giving to several building funds, Sunday Schools, and missions programs. None of them by force, but freely and most reverently. What a great God I serve...that he would allow me in some small way, to contribute to his mighty work.

To now learn that I'm gonna split hell wide open...and that eradicating such worship has become my Lord's top priority, is a little unsettling. Are you sure you didn't have a wrong number, when my Lord talked to you about this?

This "attack" that I am partaking in is not on the givers of tithes, they are the deceived ones(the innocents).

This attack is on the heretics that have imposed tithing on the church(body of Christ). As long as you give whatever you want of any percentage, VOLUNTARILY, you are in good standing with the Lord according to scripture.

The Lord Jesus is FURIOUS with this wretched doctrine that Christianity has imposed on the church and the world witnesses it.

I was finally "commissioned" by the Lord about 12 years ago, when I sat on the couch of my home and had the discussion of tithing with a pastor/mentor/relative of mine. I told him(with no internet or outside info to help my cause), that I think tithing is not a N. T. command for the church, He took me to Heb 7, then quoted to me...."here men that die, receive tithes".

He then asked me..."who is this?". I said,..."looks like Jewish priests".

Its like I poked him in the eye, this "opposing" point of view infuriated him and he said..."if you dont pay your tithes, you will split hell wide open".

The Holy Ghost immediately spoke to me that this was "Pope-ish" and evil.

After he left my home, I began to be greatly troubled about this doctrine and prayed for hours daily about this injustice.

As an avid soul winner, I always struggled with having to bring souls into this mess, but I did it anyway.

This man almost immediately developed cancer and about 2 years later, I was standing at his grave in Wash. state.

Since then, the Lord allowed me to be in services to hear "big name" UPC pastors say things like..."I am praying the curse of Malachi on my churchs' non tithers", or others saying, ..."those that oppose tithing are going straight to hell!".

All this rhetoric has escalated in my hearing, until the Holy Ghost revealed to me that the end time revival we seek will NEVER come until this heresy of .(Forced) tithing is ended.

The Lord has dealt with me to stand up to these "men of God" and rebuke them openly until they repent. I have met with several well known pastors in the UPC and challenged them with their tithing doctrine. You guys are only seeing a small portion of what I must do here.

I gave you this background of how all this started for me, so you can understand that I am not as "calloused" as you may think.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Sean

I know this is a big joke to all of you tithe teachers, but the reality is....when you die, you will go to hell. The Lord does not give folks the holy Ghost to vindicate their beliefs, but to lead them out of false doctrine. If you dont see it now, the Lord will not allow you into heaven for teaching your heresy. I have noticed that there is NO rebuttal on your part, just scoffing. That is a sign of your false doctrine being acknowledged by yourselves. You know that tithing is false doctrine and you just dont care. This is not about me....this is going to cost you eternity without God.

You guys have done business with Satan all of your Christian lives and whenever you die, you will follow him to a place of torment.


There is no place for heretical teachers in heaven. You better fix it while you are on earth.

Sean, I don't believe tithes are required of born again believers under this covenant. However, I'd be cautious before condemning all tithers to Hell. Since the church is free to give as one has purposed in their heart... should a body embrace giving 5%, 10%, or 15% as a regular sustaining offering... they do well.

In condemning tithers to Hell... we commit the same sin as those who condemn non-tithers to Hell. Can't you see... it's the division and lack of love between the two groups that is the very essence of sin as it relates to this topic???

Forgive and accept tithers. Even forgive and accept those who have a condemnatory attitude, they a repeating what they've been taught. Instead, show Christian love, grace, and acceptance.

Don't become like them!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

See.
The bitter brigade.

As a non-tither, I apologize for my brother's bitterness towards you. May the grace, love, and peace of Jesus Christ keep you and yours Bro. Epley.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Sean

Brother, your words are well taken here.

I will tone it down, but I needed to let folks see that there is NO DEBATE regarding the tithing issue. It is a completely man made philosophy that has kept folks out of the kingdom of God and has greatly hindered those that are trying to be saved. Thats the bottom line.

I realize they will never change, but I want the next generation to see these guys miserably fail to make their case and give them the tools to abandon this heresy.

If we can leave anything to our children, the most important thing is truth.

Sorry if my response is after the fact. I didn't mean to beat you up with any overkill. I responded before I had read the previous admonitions presented to you. Love you bro!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I guess Jesus goes to hell for telling folks they should pay their tithes? Jesus will be what makes it heaven for me.

Jesus also told a man healed of leprosy to show himself to the priest. Jesus also saved a thief on the cross. All during the period of time wherein He spoke of tithing. What do all of these things have in common? They were BEFORE Pentecost. Therefore, they were before the commissioning of the NT church and can be classified as having been said under the Old Covenant.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Nice to talk to you Bro. Epley. It's always a pleasure and very engaging. However, I want to point something out to you... the utterance reads... "words are written in red". That's present tense. And in our Bibles today those words are written in red. And even if the statement was past tense, "were written in red", Christ's words have been written in red for a couple generations now. So neither would disqualify the utterance from being authentic. Now, if it said, "Yeah, I say, this is He whose words were originally written in red", you'd have a point.

So this phrase doesn't disqualify the utterance. If it had biblical substance... you might do well to heed it before criticizing the Spirit.

Another point to be made is that while the Spirit speaks through us, He is speaking through human beings. Often the interpretation is limited by the interpreter's vocabulary. There have been times when I interpreted an utterance and later that night realized that I could have used better words to express the meaning of the message contained in the utterance. This inherent limitation within interpreting an utterance prevents us from declaring any prophetic utterance infallible, writing them down, and creating another volume of infallible Scriptures. Therefore, even if an interpreter clearly botches up the interpretation... we do well to consider its validity and the limitations of the interpreter while seeking to understand it.

This forum is really starting to scare me.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

This forum is really starting to scare me.

Perhaps it might help if I explained that interpreting tongues is "interpretation" not "translation". It's not like being a translator at the UN. Maybe that will clarify what I'm saying and will help resolve your fears.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Perhaps it might help if I explained that interpreting tongues is "interpretation" not "translation". It's not like being a translator at the UN. Maybe that will clarify what I'm saying and will help resolve your fears.

WTH does that even mean?

Main Entry: in·ter·pret·er
Pronunciation: \in-'t?r-pr?-t?r, -p?-\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 : one that interprets: as a : one who translates orally for parties conversing in different languages