Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

The Holy Spirit will make very plain when Christ has actually been denied; and it is not in what someone else says they believe. That is merely..the same thing you have--the words that represent some specific mental image of God, as seen through your filter, and affected by your evolving understanding--not the same today as yesterday, etc.)

Did you come to your present beliefs soley through bible study. In other words will studying the bible alone lead one to accept that allah and Jesus are one and the same?

[shazeep]

and yes, i believe that my belief would pass that test because it is for me, and does not allow me to apply it 'to' someone else. it is not that kind of relationship, except peripherally. i cannot decide who knows God or does not know God based on some words, even their words (their words will also give them away; but that's a different scenario).

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Luke

Did you come to your present beliefs soley through bible study. In other words will studying the bible alone lead one to accept that allah and Jesus are one and the same?

that is not really a fair question, because we are sternly cautioned not to mix cultures, which is just what that would be doing. One must then attempt to grasp the Qur'an--which you must admit commands one to 'follow Christ or you have no hope'--through the opaque filter of differing cultures, and this is not possible without immersing yourself in that culture in dedicated study. it is pointless. seek where you agree, which is the foundation of all of your faiths anyway, or be doomed.

[shazeep]

Understand the meaning of Ishmael blessed of God and 12 nations from (his) loins. this is big, ok. the covenant makers of Isaac have since been divorced by God, by decree, and you as a Christian spring from them. Consider the irony in you suggesting that Allah is not God

"...in the end, it is between you and God; it never was between you and them anyway." Mother Teresa

[shazeep]

insisting on a rote declaration is meaningless if the heart does not follow; and denying it is irrelevant if the heart has followed.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Understand the meaning of Ishmael blessed of God and 12 nations from (his) loins. this is big, ok. the covenant makers of Isaac have since been divorced by God, by decree, and you as a Christian spring from them. Consider the irony in you suggesting that Allah is not God

"...in the end, it is between you and God; it never was between you and them anyway." Mother Teresa

Your statement implies that because Israel fell from God's olive tree through unbelief, and that we spring from them is to say Christians are missing it. That is a real distortion of the reference in the New Testament to Israel and their relationship with God.

Here's something to grasp. Galatians 4 teaches that unbelieving Jews are like Ishmael... children of the flesh. And their persecution of the church was like Ishmael persecuting Isaac, the child of promise. So, Israel in unbelief is away from God but in a sense like Ishmael. Ishmael bears no favour in the overall picture of old and new testaments. Christians are like Isaac and unsaved Jews are like Ishmael. That means saved gentiles are more Israelitish than unsaved Jews!

[shazeep]

very nice. i would not imply that Ishmael was perfect; and there are certainly even more nuances to the relationship. It was fathered by lack of faith in God, is another one. And while I agree with you that it is a distortion from your cultural pov--if you have truly picked up your cross--it cannot be denied that it also may have some spiritual validity in reference to Christianity, the religion. Strong men have sought to take hold of it, too. Chickens have come home to roost, so to speak, at the very least.

[shazeep]

hmm, but to say Ishmael bears no favor is to ignore 12 nations, i think.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by shazeep

There are no 'Islamic prayers at the Vatican,' and as proof i offer that this story broke 'mainstream'

wadr to any Catholics reading this--we are all deceived in some regards, and what is in your heart will be judged the same as mine. Or a Muslim's.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Revelationist

That doesn't matter. Facts are facts. They deny Him.

You are incorrect. Muslims do not deny Jesus. The teachings of Jesus were consistent with the teachings of the other Prophets and Messengers sent to either teach or warn those who turned away from God. The Quran lists and references them all.