Deathbed Salvation

[deacon blues]

On the minister's forum I started this thread with quite a bit of healthy debate, but alas some wearied of the challenge to OP doctrine and requested that I cease. Since I know there is a variety of opinion here and freedom of ideas is allowed I wanted to continue the debate here. I offered that some would come over here to keep the conversation going.

Simply put, if a man was dying, with moments to live and he repented of his sins, I believe his sins would be forgiven and he would be cleansed from all unrighteousness. If Jesus can't save him in those circumstances, He's not much of a savior.

[Scott Hutchinson]

God is a just judge and He is fair,such a one is in the hands of a just judge.

[RandyWayne]

Well, there is precedent for the "death bed confession" but many OP's would probably like to see it struck from scripture.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

On the minister's forum I started this thread with quite a bit of healthy debate, but alas some wearied of the challenge to OP doctrine and requested that I cease. Since I know there is a variety of opinion here and freedom of ideas is allowed I wanted to continue the debate here. I offered that some would come over here to keep the conversation going.

Simply put, if a man was dying, with moments to live and he repented of his sins, I believe his sins would be forgiven and he would be cleansed from all unrighteousness. If Jesus can't save him in those circumstances, He's not much of a savior.

If a man or woman were sick and dying, and was repentant and pleading for my prayers, I'd only have two Scriptures to stand upon:

John 20:23
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

James 5:14-16
14Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

I lean towards using Apostolic authority in these cases. But that's just my personal conviction on the matter. I believe that our just and loving God has made provision for those in such circumstances. For many, the first time they really hear the fulness of the Gospel or understand their need of Christ is before death.

My ex-grandmother-in-law was dying in the hospital. She was an Episcopalian. Of all the people she desired to pray for her (even to the exclusion of her priest) was me and my now ex-wife. We anointed her with oil and prayed the prayer of faith with her. It was my only recourse. I commit her soul to the Lord. I know that He is just and loving... desiring to save us far more than we desire to be saved... because He alone knows what truly awaits the condemned after death.

[AreYouReady?]

Good topic.


While I cannot speak for God, I can meditate on what Jesus told the thief on the cross.


39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
(Luke 23:39-43)

The thief on the cross merely asked Jesus to remember him after he told the other one that Christ did nothing wrong to deserve such a death. Jesus showed great mercy to the thief.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Good topic.


While I cannot speak for God, I can meditate on what Jesus told the thief on the cross.


39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
(Luke 23:39-43)

The thief on the cross merely asked Jesus to remember him after he told the other one that Christ did nothing wrong to deserve such a death. Jesus showed great mercy to the thief.

It can be argued that the thief died prior to Christ's death and resurrection, therefore couldn't believe in it, and was technically repenting under the Dispensation of the Law of Moses. So I don't see it as being a prooftext illustrating that anyone can repent on their deathbed and be saved.

However, Jesus uses His absolute authority to forgive the man of his sins. The Scriptures indicate that we too carry such authority. If a man full of the Holy Ghost and Apostolic authority to administer the remission of sins were to pray with the sick and dying at their request... I believe that praying the prayer of faith just might save the sick as the NT Scripture states.


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Clarke's Commentary on the Bible:
"And the prayer of faith; shall save the sick - That is, God will often make these the means of a sick man's recovery; but there often are cases where faith and prayer are both ineffectual, because God sees it will be prejudicial to the patient's salvation to be restored; and therefore all faith and prayer on such occasions should be exerted on this ground: "If it be most for thy glory, and the eternal good of this man's soul, let him be restored; if otherwise, Lord, pardon, purify him, and take him to thy glory."

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Well, there is precedent for the "death bed confession" but many OP's would probably like to see it struck from scripture.

Excpet when it applies to their own lost family... They seem to recieve the holy ghost and speak in tongues on their death beds every time.

What do I personaly believe... that there are only one of two conditions... we are moving toward God or moving away... and He knows absolutely which one you are in.

I believe that the parable of the vineyard workers found in Matthew 20:1-16 deals with those who come late to Christ.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It can be argued that the thief died prior to Christ's death and resurrection, therefore couldn't believe in it, and was technically repenting under the Dispensation of the Law of Moses. So I don't see it as being a prooftext illustrating that anyone can repent on their deathbed and be saved.

However, Jesus uses His absolute authority to forgive the man of his sins. The Scriptures indicate that we too carry such authority. If a man full of the Holy Ghost and Apostolic authority to administer the remission of sins were to pray with the sick and dying at their request... I believe that praying the prayer of faith just might save the sick as the NT Scripture states.


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Clarke's Commentary on the Bible:
"And the prayer of faith; shall save the sick - That is, God will often make these the means of a sick man's recovery; but there often are cases where faith and prayer are both ineffectual, because God sees it will be prejudicial to the patient's salvation to be restored; and therefore all faith and prayer on such occasions should be exerted on this ground: "If it be most for thy glory, and the eternal good of this man's soul, let him be restored; if otherwise, Lord, pardon, purify him, and take him to thy glory."

It can, as you say, Aquilla.

My post was not to take anything away from your message. It is merely my observation that Jesus, the Supreme Authority, showed mercy unto this lost and dying man.

[Aquila]

I do love this text. I want to read it again:

James 5:14-16
14Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Notice that the Apostle makes no exceptions. This is for "any" found sick among the church. Not just church members.

If taken literally here is what is needed:

-A duely authorized elder of the church. This speaks of the need for the "spiritual authority" (John 20:23) of one who has been obedient to the fulness of the Gospel (Acts 2:38; I Timothy 3:1-7).
-Oil. Oil is often used as a symbol of the Holy Spirit and is evidently a vehicle of faith, healing, and forgiveness. -Invocation of the "name of the Lord" upon anointing with oil. It is to be administered in "Jesus name", just as with water baptism.
-The prayer of faith. There must be faith in the elder and the sick for both healing and forgivness, if it be God's will.

If taken literally here is what is promised in accordance to God's will:

-The sick will be "saved", delivered from their sickness.
-The Lord will "raise him up". This might be through divine healing or the resurrection.
-And if the individual has committed sins, "they shall be forgiven him".

This is the only sacrement named in Scripture for the sick and infirm. I believe that if it is taken literally... it demonstrates a loving provision from our God for those who find themselves in such circumstances. Also, it should be considered that perhaps the sickness, and in some cases the inevitible death, is something sent by God to awaken the soul's need for salvation, should they call upon an Apostolic elder.

What loving Apostolic elder wouldn't anoint any sick and/or dying person with oil and pray with them for healing and salvation? And if most would do this... wouldn't it be absolute foolishness for the minister not to believe that this course of action to be effectual as it relates to the promises regarding the anointing of oil in Scripture?

I personally thank God for this sacremental provision for the sick and dying.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

It can, as you say, Aquilla.

My post was not to take anything away from your message. It is merely my observation that Jesus, the Supreme Authority, showed mercy unto this lost and dying man.

Amen. I was just examining the text.