Not trying to start (or revive) a doctrine debate, just venting....
Last night I watched (AGAIN) as a man in our church sought for the Holy Ghost. Let me tell you about him.......
He is an inmate at a local prison who was reached through our prison ministry...
He recieved the Word....
He repented....
Re-established contact with his family....
Got baptized (in Jesus name).....
Gets out on release every Sunday AM and PM to come to church (and NEVER misses) ....
He truly desires to live for God, and looks forward to getting out of prison soon.
And yet he seeks in sincere prayer Sunday after Sunday (for SIX MONTHS!!!) at the altar for the entire altar time, with brothers all around him shouting and screaming and talking in his ear and holding his hands up in the air....and hasn't spoken in tongues yet. He literally BEGS!!!! God to save him with tears streaming down his face..
After service, elders and the pastor group around him, hug him, and tell him he'll get saved soon if he just keeps trying. Last night, my mother in law (one if the churches matriarchs, and TRULEY the most Godly woman I know) told him the same thing.
I have never seen such a vivid illustartion of the biggest hole in our doctrine...God hasn't saved this man?? Really?? He's still going to hell????
I am truly troubled....I'm looking to ANY example of anything close to this in the bible....
Not trying to start (or revive) a doctrine debate, just venting....
Last night I watched (AGAIN) as a man in our church sought for the Holy Ghost. Let me tell you about him.......
He is an inmate at a local prison who was reached through our prison ministry...
He recieved the Word....
He repented....
Re-established contact with his family....
Got baptized (in Jesus name).....
Gets out on release every Sunday AM and PM to come to church (and NEVER misses) ....
He truly desires to live for God, and looks forward to getting out of prison soon.
And yet he seeks in sincere prayer Sunday after Sunday (for SIX MONTHS!!!) at the altar for the entire altar time, with brothers all around him shouting and screaming and talking in his ear and holding his hands up in the air....and hasn't spoken in tongues yet. He literally BEGS!!!! God to save him with tears streaming down his face..
After service, elders and the pastor group around him, hug him, and tell him he'll get saved soon if he just keeps trying. Last night, my mother in law (one if the churches matriarchs, and TRULEY the most Godly woman I know) told him the same thing.
I have never seen such a vivid illustartion of the biggest hole in our doctrine...God hasn't saved this man?? Really?? He's still going to hell????
I am truly troubled....I'm looking to ANY example of anything close to this in the bible....
SIGH.... As I said, I'm just venting.
Thanks
I was always told that if I truly repented and really yielded myself to God then I would speak in tongues. It never happened.
This scenario you are showing us was the beginning of my questioning the doctrine. The smart churches will pronounce people as being filled as long as enough crying and emotional experience happens. I have seen this many times at rallys where people are pronounced as being filled with the Holy Ghost when I saw for my own eyes that they didn't speak in tongues.
I don't see anyone in the bible ever begging for the holyghost......Thats why I don't buy into it....sorry..but the holyghost has not poured out on anyone like it was done in the bible..
Wouldn't it be great to have clear instructions in the Bible on how to get saved, and how to know for sure if you are saved? Sadly, they aren't there. And the Bible even admits that there will be people who think they are saved but aren't.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Not trying to start (or revive) a doctrine debate, just venting....
Last night I watched (AGAIN) as a man in our church sought for the Holy Ghost. Let me tell you about him.......
He is an inmate at a local prison who was reached through our prison ministry...
He recieved the Word....
He repented....
Re-established contact with his family....
Got baptized (in Jesus name).....
Gets out on release every Sunday AM and PM to come to church (and NEVER misses) ....
He truly desires to live for God, and looks forward to getting out of prison soon.
And yet he seeks in sincere prayer Sunday after Sunday (for SIX MONTHS!!!) at the altar for the entire altar time, with brothers all around him shouting and screaming and talking in his ear and holding his hands up in the air....and hasn't spoken in tongues yet. He literally BEGS!!!! God to save him with tears streaming down his face..
After service, elders and the pastor group around him, hug him, and tell him he'll get saved soon if he just keeps trying. Last night, my mother in law (one if the churches matriarchs, and TRULEY the most Godly woman I know) told him the same thing.
I have never seen such a vivid illustartion of the biggest hole in our doctrine...God hasn't saved this man?? Really?? He's still going to hell????
I am truly troubled....I'm looking to ANY example of anything close to this in the bible....
SIGH.... As I said, I'm just venting.
Thanks
Evidently, there's sin that he hasn't let go of. I say that with extreme exasperation that anyone could ever say such a thing. All I can say is, "Sigh." And.....this man is 100%, completely, totally, through and through....SAVED!!!! Heaven has rejoiced GREATLY over him!!! Heaven didn't notice yesterday when many gave in the offering yesterday, ran the aisles, said "amen" to the preacher, or spoke in tongues during a moving song. But heaven went crazy when this man gave his heart to Jesus Christ!!
Not trying to start (or revive) a doctrine debate, just venting....
Last night I watched (AGAIN) as a man in our church sought for the Holy Ghost. Let me tell you about him.......
He is an inmate at a local prison who was reached through our prison ministry...
He recieved the Word....
He repented....
Re-established contact with his family....
Got baptized (in Jesus name).....
Gets out on release every Sunday AM and PM to come to church (and NEVER misses) ....
He truly desires to live for God, and looks forward to getting out of prison soon.
And yet he seeks in sincere prayer Sunday after Sunday (for SIX MONTHS!!!) at the altar for the entire altar time, with brothers all around him shouting and screaming and talking in his ear and holding his hands up in the air....and hasn't spoken in tongues yet. He literally BEGS!!!! God to save him with tears streaming down his face..
After service, elders and the pastor group around him, hug him, and tell him he'll get saved soon if he just keeps trying. Last night, my mother in law (one if the churches matriarchs, and TRULEY the most Godly woman I know) told him the same thing.
I have never seen such a vivid illustartion of the biggest hole in our doctrine...God hasn't saved this man?? Really?? He's still going to hell????
I am truly troubled....I'm looking to ANY example of anything close to this in the bible....
SIGH.... As I said, I'm just venting.
Thanks
The man was justified by his faith so that he might repent and approach God. I believe that since he's obeyed the Scriptures he's experienced repentance and the remission of sins. However, he has yet to receive the Holy Ghost. The purpose of the baptism of the Holy Ghost was to sanctify and empower believers to witness (Acts 1:8). I wouldn't chalk him up to being lost...just in need of the sanctifying power and anointing of the Holy Ghost. Many times people believe they are unworthy to receive this "gift". Until they honestly just receive the "gift" as a "gift" they will struggle. The more pressure we put on them the more likely they will stumble at the promise. Also many don't realize that they will not be "taken over". Some have to be encouaged to speak out in faith and allow the Spirit to begin uttering. I once told a person to just say "I love you Jesus." over and over. Soon it was, "I l-l-love you J-J-Jesus." and then, "I la la la la love you Je je je Jesus.", and finally, "I la lala la la la, je je je..." when the Spirit took over...and before you knew it, tears were streaming down and the man was speaking in an unknown tongue. It's like an ice breaker between him and God is how I see it.
I say that with extreme exasperation that anyone could ever say such a thing. All I can say is, "Sigh." And.....this man is 100%, completely, totally, through and through....SAVED!!!! Heaven has rejoiced GREATLY over him!!! Heaven didn't notice yesterday when many gave in the offering yesterday, ran the aisles, said "amen" to the preacher, or spoke in tongues during a moving song. But heaven went crazy when this man gave his heart to Jesus Christ!!
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