I received a phone call about tithes

[Originalist]

Out of the blue today a very distraught brother called me.

He attends the church I stopped attending about a year ago. He informed me that the pastor has been hammering in tithes for the past two weeks. A couple of controversial statements have thundered from the pulpit both the past two Sundays.

If you are struggling financially, all I have to do is go look at the books in the office and I know immediately why you are struggling.

and.....

Tithe on what you want to make, not on what you make.

This man is a major play in the organization. It breaks my heart that an elder of so many years could be so tactless and clueless. He made the same remarks from the pulpit right before I left. About 18 months previously I had come to him to tell him that I had just experienced a 70% loss of income and that he could expect to see a decrease in my giving. I wanted him to know firsthand why one of his ministers was suddenly giving significantly less. I also informed him that for the past two years we had been tithing on the gross of our BUSINESS income BEFORE expenses were deducted instead of tithing on our salary. The only reaction I got from this was a raised eyebrow. Then soon after that the tithing sermons started and the same remarks were made then that were made the past two weeks according to the brother who called me.

So how did I get into all these financial struggles if I was really giving around 20% for two years?

The brother who called me is ready to leave the church and I do not blame him. On the one hand he wants to go to the pastor in love and ask him to clarify his remarks. But he knows that is basically suicide.

And God weeps.

[Scott Pitta]

I was treasurer of our local church for many years. The board processed church offerings, not the pastor. So our pastor does not know the giving habbits of any of the members. This frees him up to minister to members without fiscal influences.

It was a poor church in a poor county. We had a tight budget. We rarely took special offerings. If we managed the money wisely, there would be no need for pressure to give.

Tithes are 10% and nothing more. If members want to give extra for something special, like missions, that is their business.

Once a year we had a missions banquet. Pledges based on that dinner set the limits on our mission budget for the next year.

It took 2 signitures to write a church check. The pastor was not one of those certified to write a check. Monthly financial reports documented every financial transfer, both incoming and outgoing. These reports were reviewed by the church board.

Pastor was paid like an employee, just like in a business.

At the annual business meeting, a full detailed financial report was handed to every voting member.

Strong financial controls limit the influence filthy lucre has on a local church.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

I was treasurer of our local church for many years. The board processed church offerings, not the pastor. So our pastor does not know the giving habbits of any of the members. This frees him up to minister to members without fiscal influences.

It was a poor church in a poor county. We had a tight budget. We rarely took special offerings. If we managed the money wisely, there would be no need for pressure to give.

Tithes are 10% and nothing more. If members want to give extra for something special, like missions, that is their business.

Once a year we had a missions banquet. Pledges based on that dinner set the limits on our mission budget for the next year.

It took 2 signitures to write a church check. The pastor was not one of those certified to write a check. Monthly financial reports documented every financial transfer, both incoming and outgoing. These reports were reviewed by the church board.

Pastor was paid like an employee, just like in a business.

At the annual business meeting, a full detailed financial report was handed to every voting member.

Strong financial controls limit the influence filthy lucre has on a local church.

I doubt there are many pastors in the UPCI that would submit to such a system. Submission is for the pew potatoes, not the ministers.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I doubt there are many pastors in the UPCI that would submit to such a system. Submission is for the pew potatoes, not the ministers.

I am a UPC minister and would love to have such a system. Pastors need to have as little to do with the church finances as possible (for their protection). There has been many ministers destroyed over church finances. Matter of fact if the people had more involvement in church finances people would then probably feel more passionately about giving. We somehow have made it seem like pastors own the church when they are just another part of it. Their job is to spiritually lead it, but many times there are people in the church far more qualified to hold the bag.

[Miss Scarlett]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I am a UPC minister and would love to have such a system. Pastors need to have as little to do with the church finances as possible (for their protection). There has been many ministers destroyed over church finances. Matter of fact if the people had more involvement in church finances people would then probably feel more passionately about giving. We somehow have made it seem like pastors own the church when they are just another part of it. Their job is to spiritually lead it, but many times there are people in the church far more qualified to hold the bag.

So what are your thoughts about our Pastor at our one business meeting a year, asking us to give the financial positions to his wife. ( Sec. and Treasurer ) and the church voting in agreement. I know this has gone on in this church for over 20 years? The tithes are strictly confidential between Pastor and Wife.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Miss Scarlett

So what are your thoughts about our Pastor at our one business meeting a year, asking us to give the financial positions to his wife. ( Sec. and Treasurer ) and the church voting in agreement. I know this has gone on in this church for over 20 years? The tithes are strictly confidential between Pastor and Wife.

The local church board of directors should appoint the church treasurer not the pastor.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Miss Scarlett

So what are your thoughts about our Pastor at our one business meeting a year, asking us to give the financial positions to his wife. ( Sec. and Treasurer ) and the church voting in agreement. I know this has gone on in this church for over 20 years? The tithes are strictly confidential between Pastor and Wife.

Many smaller churches don't have qualified people to fill certain necessary roles in the church and pastors or pastors wives do it. If that be the case I personally believe that there should be a very very open door policy. Although relationships are built on trust and people should trust their church leadership, secrecy of finances could cause a reason to doubt. Why would there be a reason to withhold financial information from church members?

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by Miss Scarlett

So what are your thoughts about our Pastor at our one business meeting a year, asking us to give the financial positions to his wife. ( Sec. and Treasurer ) and the church voting in agreement. I know this has gone on in this church for over 20 years? The tithes are strictly confidential between Pastor and Wife.

This is asking for trouble. I've heard of Pastor's wives writing church checks to their kids and when confronted said it was none of their business. If there is no one else that sees what comes in and goes out, there is all sorts of opportunity to fudge the books. Also, this same dishonest Pastor/wife combo, took all the tithe records with them when they resigned. Those records are supposed to stay with the corporation. But it wasn't worth dragging someone through the court system.

[Miss Scarlett]

Originally Posted by Miss Scarlett

So what are your thoughts about our Pastor at our one business meeting a year, asking us to give the financial positions to his wife. ( Sec. and Treasurer ) and the church voting in agreement. I know this has gone on in this church for over 20 years? The tithes are strictly confidential between Pastor and Wife.

May I state that the above post is strictly fictional, and is not a fact, and all parties mentioned are fiction.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Miss Scarlett

So what are your thoughts about our Pastor at our one business meeting a year, asking us to give the financial positions to his wife. ( Sec. and Treasurer ) and the church voting in agreement. I know this has gone on in this church for over 20 years? The tithes are strictly confidential between Pastor and Wife.

Most of this depends on how the finances of the church are set up. In the church I grew up in, the tithes was solely designated for the pastor. The offerings were for up keep of the church etc. When the tithe income of the church became enough the pastor went full time, until then he worked a secular job. I know many times he would put the tithe into the general fund to keep the church afloat. In this case it matters not who did the books on the tithes. So long as the church bills are current. That being said any church gets big enough that there is an overflow in income then it is time to appoint someone else to keep the books and put the pastor on a set income.