"Welcome to the Bush-Obama White House"

[n david]

Great article by Ron Fornier from the National Journal.

SOURCE LINK

Welcome to the era of Bush-Obama, a 16-year span of U.S. history that will be remembered for an unprecedented erosion of civil liberties and a disregard for transparency. On the war against a tactic—terrorism—and its insidious fallout, the United States could have skipped the 2008 election.

It made little difference.

Despite his clear and popular promises to the contrary, President Obama has not shifted the balance between security and freedom to a more natural state—one not blinded by worst fears and tarred by power grabs. If anything, things have gotten worse.

• Killing civilians and U.S. citizens via drone.
  
• Seizing telephone records at the Associated Press in violation of Justice Department guidelines.
  
• Accusing a respected Fox News reporter of engaging in a conspiracy to commit treason for doing his job.
  
• Detaining terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay, despite promises to end the ill-considered Bush policy.

But for several reasons the news is chilling.

1. Verizon probably isn't the only company coughing up its documents. Odds are incredibly strong that the government is prying into your telephone records today.
2. Issued in April, the NSA order "could represent the broadest surveillance order known to have been issued," according to The Washington Post. "It also would confirm long-standing suspicions of civil liberties advocates about the sweeping nature of U.S. surveillance through commercial carries under laws passed after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks."
3. This appears to be a "rubber stamp," order, reissued every few months since 2001. As is the case with all government programs, the systematic snooping into your telephone records is unlikely to ever expire without public outcry.
4. Congress is full of hypocrites. Liberals who criticized Bush are less incensed with Obama. Republicans who bowed to Bush are now blasting Obama. The next time your congressional representative criticizes Obama for curbing civil liberties, ask if he or she would vote to repeal the Patriot Act, the post-911 law that handed unfettered power to the intelligence and military bureaucracies. Most won't.
5. The Bush-Obama White House hates transparency. President George W. Bush and his vice president, Dick Cheney, were justifiably criticized by Democrats (none more successfully so than Obama himself) for their penchant for secrecy. Obama promised that he would run history's most transparent administration. By almost any measure, on domestic and well as foreign policies, Obama has broken that promise.

One thing we've learned about the Bush-Obama White House is that words don't matter. Watch what they do.

One thing is clear and irrefutable: W started the erosion of constitutional liberties with the PA and Obama has continued and expanded it with NDAA 2012, drones, phone/internet records grabs, etc.

As much as Obama hates W, they are very much alike in their disdain for transparency and civil liberties.

[n david]

The author of the PA, Jim Sensenbrenner (R-WI) wants to amend the bill, says it was never the intent of the PA to grab phone and internet records.

Don't amend it, Sensenbrenner! Repeal it! IMO, this is just as bad a bill as Obamacare, possibly worse. Republicans have been falling over themselves trying to repeal Obamacare; what about PA!?

Repeal the bill! Forget about amending it. Making it less of a bad bill is stupid. It's a terrible infringement on liberties. It never should've been signed into law.

SOURCE LINK

[RandyWayne]

As much as Obama hates W, they are very much alike in their disdain for transparency and civil liberties.
Reply With Quote

I have to disagree with this. While GW was/is a man who loves this country and genuinely wants to see it protected from evil people both inside and out, he was just VERY unwise in believing than powers granted to him in order to accomplish his goals would not be used by future tyrants from Chicago to bring forth the police state. The difference in personal integrity between GW and Emperor O are 180 degrees off.

[odooley6985]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I have to disagree with this. While GW was/is a man who loves this country and genuinely wants to see it protected from evil people both inside and out, he was just VERY unwise in believing than powers granted to him in order to accomplish his goals would not be used by future tyrants from Chicago to bring forth the police state. The difference in personal integrity between GW and Emperor O are 180 degrees off.

GW knowingly dragging us into a second war with Iraq under false pretense trumps anything Obama has done. Lets say he is to blame for the deaths at Benghazi. That is one days worth of deaths during the height of the Iraq war. GW wanted the police state as well. GW is the third generation of evil Bush's. Do your research. His granddad was evil and so is his dad. To give one a pass and not the other is partisan part politics. Also one could say the same thing about Obama wanting to implement gun control. He is doing it to protect people.

[Dedicated Mind]

i agree odooley. obama is not a warmonger like bush and his neocon buddies. he is playing along with the police state because he doesn't have the power to overturn the establishment machine. all of this nonsense is approved by congress. congress has the power to change it.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

i agree odooley. obama is not a warmonger like bush and his neocon buddies. he is playing along with the police state because he doesn't have the power to overturn the establishment machine. all of this nonsense is approved by congress. congress has the power to change it.

You are lying to yourself and you know it.

[odooley6985]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

i agree odooley. obama is not a warmonger like bush and his neocon buddies. he is playing along with the police state because he doesn't have the power to overturn the establishment machine. all of this nonsense is approved by congress. congress has the power to change it.

Well I think Obama is a warmonger as well. Look at us helping out in Libya and Syria. I wasn't defending Obama as much as I was pointing out the hypocrisy of defending Bush's crapping on the constitution but getting mad at Obama doing it.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by odooley6985

Well I think Obama is a warmonger as well. Look at us helping out in Libya and Syria. I wasn't defending Obama as much as I was pointing out the hypocrisy of defending Bush's crapping on the constitution but getting mad at Obama doing it.

i agree that obama is too right wing for the democratic party, i'm just saying that it would be a mistake to think that a republican wouldn't continue all of this police state in the name of war on terror nonsense. i don't think there is anyone that can stop it including obama.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by odooley6985

Well I think Obama is a warmonger as well. Look at us helping out in Libya and Syria. I wasn't defending Obama as much as I was pointing out the hypocrisy of defending Bush's crapping on the constitution but getting mad at Obama doing it.

Please don't forget that the Tea Party started largely in part due to Bush's crapping on the Constitution? How do you think his approval ratings down into the 20's? It was because conservatives turned on him for being too liberal.

This shows that conservatives are loyal to the constitution first. Notice that no matter how bad things get, Obama's approval numbers hover at 50%. That's because Democrats are mindless followers of men who and are not loyal to the constitution. They wipe with the Constitution.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

i agree that obama is too right wing for the democratic party, i'm just saying that it would be a mistake to think that a republican wouldn't continue all of this police state in the name of war on terror nonsense. i don't think there is anyone that can stop it including obama.

You are a communist and you fully approve of Obama's communist spying tactics. Why put yourself in a damnable position before God by lying and pretending you think Obama is "right wing"?