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  #1  
Old 01-12-2011, 11:19 PM
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Falla39 Falla39 is offline
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Thomas Weisser Spoke At Our Church Tonight!

http://thomasweisser.com/biography.html

Wonderful! The gates of hell have not prevailed .

Falla39
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2011, 11:26 PM
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Hoovie Hoovie is offline
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Re: Thomas Weisser Spoke At Our Church Tonight!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falla39 View Post
http://thomasweisser.com/biography.html

Wonderful! The gates of hell have not prevailed .

Falla39
I never heard him speak. The church is triumphant indeed!

I have the one book "Way called Heresy". I was excited at what it was saying for a few years... but then later realized what it was not saying... This may not be the thread for such discussion though.
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Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

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Old 01-12-2011, 11:32 PM
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pelathais pelathais is offline
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Re: Thomas Weisser Spoke At Our Church Tonight!

I hear Tom's a really nice guy. He's just mistaken about his "history." He's not as bad as others, but even Tom can't show us a single believer who practiced the "full package" of Acts 2:38 "salvation" between the years 250 AD and 1913 AD.

Not one person. Not one group. Nobody did. And yet, as Falla points out... The Gates of Hell have NOT prevailed against the church.
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  #4  
Old 01-13-2011, 12:14 AM
houston houston is offline
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Re: Thomas Weisser Spoke At Our Church Tonight!

heh.
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  #5  
Old 01-13-2011, 05:54 AM
DAII DAII is offline
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Re: Thomas Weisser Spoke At Our Church Tonight!

Another fictional writer.
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  #6  
Old 01-13-2011, 08:54 AM
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Re: Thomas Weisser Spoke At Our Church Tonight!

I do not believe the reference to "the gates of hell shall not prevail," mean that there was always a certain doctrinal strain throughout all generations. I used to think that, but I thin it is waaaay out of context.

Jesus was speaking about union to Himself, the Rock, through the cross. He said gates of hell/hades/grave would not hold back those slain. It reminds me of Jonah who perhaps actually died in the whale. He said the earth with her bars were about him. Yet Jonah came forth. Even if he did not actually die, Jonah was released from sure death, at least -- from the bars of the earth.

That is why Jesus began to speak, at that point, about the cross. Matt 16:21. Union to Him who would resurrect would mean the power of resurrection would come upon US AS WELL! So why fear the cross and death if resurrection power ensures death cannot hold us?

Peter missed that, and all he heard was the death Jesus said he would experience. Matt 16:22. Had he got the revelation of resurrection from death he would not have feared death, for the gates of death/grave would not prevail against anyone built on the rock of Christ.

You can hold a doctrinal position and not be on the rock! In other words, without the cross of self denial, all the "Lord, Lord" and miracles and wonders in Jesus' name -- even baptism in Jesus' name -- will see Him tell us He never knew us.
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:44 AM
Sabby Sabby is offline
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Re: Thomas Weisser Spoke At Our Church Tonight!

I don't know who Falla is talking about. The author Tom Weisser passed away last year.
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  #8  
Old 01-13-2011, 10:45 AM
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Hoovie Hoovie is offline
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Re: Thomas Weisser Spoke At Our Church Tonight!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabby View Post
I don't know who Falla is talking about. The author Tom Weisser passed away last year.
WHOAAAAA!

Is he back?
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"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005

I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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  #9  
Old 01-13-2011, 11:06 AM
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Charnock Charnock is offline
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Re: Thomas Weisser Spoke At Our Church Tonight!

Jesus: The Rock of our Salvation

Matthew 16: 13-18 NIV

13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
14They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Intro:

Although they had never been given a living, visible illustration of God as their rock, the idea of God as our rock was nothing new to Jesus’ disciples because the metaphor is used multiple times throughout the Old and New Testaments.

“He is the Rock, His work is perfect; for all His ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is He” (Deuteronomy 32:4).

Here in the song of Moses, which God instructed him to write for the children of Israel as they were about to enter the promised land, is the first of at least 40 references in the Bible to God as the Rock. There are four others just in this song. In verse 15, He is the “Rock of (Israel’s) salvation.” In verse 18, He is “the Rock that begat thee.”

Later, we receive word pictures of God as our great foundation stone.
He is “my strong Rock” in Psalm 31:2, and “the Rock that is higher than I” in Psalm 61:2. In Psalm 62:7, He is “the Rock of my strength” and “the Rock of my refuge” in Psalm 94:22. The prophet Isaiah calls Him “a great Rock in a weary land” and “the Rock whence ye are hewn” (Isaiah 32:2; 51:1).
After leaving Egypt, during the forty years in the wilderness, the Israelites were supplied continually with water from a rock, and the Apostle Paul tells us “that spiritual Rock that followed them . . . was Christ” (I Corinthians 10:4).

To unbelievers He is “The stone which the builders rejected” (Matthew 21:42), “a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense, even to them which stumble at the word” (I Peter 2:8).

“Therefore,” said Jesus, “whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock” (Matthew 7:25).

Again, the idea of God as our rock was nothing new to the disciples. However, in Matthew, chapter 16, Jesus reveals his true identity to his disciples in a remarkable way. He uses geography to illustrate that He is a god who is constant, faithful and enduring.
_______________

Caesarea Philippi was built around the time of Jesus’ birth by Herod Philip on top of rocky cliffs that lined the Banyas River, which is a tributary of the Jordan.

This place had a long and storied history of paganism.
Images of the pagan god, Pan, were carved into a rock face, which was hundreds of feet high, as a visible reminder of this mythological Greek god. In other places along the rock face, niches were carved out so that pagans could place their idols of wood, metal and stone “in the rock.”

To the Greeks, the mythological god, Pan, was the god of animals and forests. Students of mythology know that Greeks believed Pan could multiply into a swarm of Pans. In other words, he had the ability to reproduce himself in various forms, taking on different identities as he saw fit. The most popular images of Pan, however, were the images of him as half-human, half-goat. This image survives, in our day, in the upside down satanic pentagram, shaped like a goat’s head.

It’s important to realize that this conversation between Jesus and his disciples occurred shortly before he made his final journey to Jerusalem to be crucified. It’s equally important to understand that his journey to this place, Caesarea Philippi, was no accident.

Jesus was a Jew and, as such, he knew that the Law prohibited Him from visiting a pagan temple. Mosaic Law was very clear in this regard. Visiting such a place meant you were defiled. Yet, Jesus seems to have considered the consequences, and decided to bring His disciples to this place anyway. Our text reveals His reason.

1.The Two Questions


Jesus brought His disciples to Caesarea Philippi to ask two questions He could have asked them anywhere.


A."Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?"

Against the backdrop of pagan gods etched in stone, and idols embedded in the cliff walls, Jesus asks the question, “Whom do men say that I the Son of Man am?”

• What do people think of me?
• Who do they say I am?
• Do they realize my true identity?

The question is a leading question. It’s a loaded question.

Surely Jesus knew what people were saying! He had to be aware of their assumptions and theories. It’s obvious that he wanted the disciples to verbalize all of those theories. And their answers came fast and furious. Others are saying you’re…

• John the Baptist.
• Elijah.
• Jeremiah.
• Maybe even one of the other prophets.

These answers revealed confusion. They showed that people were viewing Him as some reincarnation of a dead prophet. These opinions proved that people were viewing Jesus through pagan lens, and with fleshly understanding. After all, if Pan could multiply into different forms, couldn’t Jesus simply be another form of one of the prophets?

Jesus asked this question to show just how faulty human reasoning is. In short, he asked it to show that their assumptions were as false as the images of the gods which lined the rock facing. He asked the question so that he could respond by comparing things which were dead, and would never live again to the God who would die – yet live again. In this way He is the incomparable Living God

The first question was easy. It required no personal commitment. There was no risk involved in answering it. But the next question is dangerous.

B.“But who do you say that I am?”

THIS question is personal.

Who do you say that I am? What do you think of me?

Understand, these men had been following Jesus for three years. They had shared many meals with Him, listened to Him teach, and watched Him perform miracle after miracle. And now it is time for a quiz, of sorts.

“Who do you say that I am?”

2. Peter’s Answer

The Bible does not record what anybody else said, but Peter responds with conviction and clarity, "Thou art the Christ, the son of the living God."

Against the backdrop of pagan gods drawn in stone, Peter confesses that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God. This declaration was made in direct opposition to the dead gods enshrined in the Petra.

a. Peter recognized, through the unction of the Holy Spirit, that…

• Jesus is not a reincarnation of someone else’s flesh, He is wholly individual. He is the One True God manifested once, and for all time, to redeem mankind.

• Jesus is not a monstrous half-man, half-god being, He is the Christ, the hope of mankind. He is fully man, and fully God.

• Jesus is not “dead” like the inanimate objects and images of pagan gods. He is the living, breathing plan of God to rid the world of the panic (word derived from Pan) sin brings.

b. Peter called Him “Christ” which means “the anointed one” or “Messiah.”

• Peter recognized His origin.
• Peter recognized His mission.
• Peter recognized His identity.


And Jesus recognizes the voice of spiritual revelation, and declares "Blessed art thou, Simon Barona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

Revealed it?


Revealed what?

The revelation of who Jesus is. He is the Christ come to seek and save that which is lost.

• This revelation comes from God.
• This revelation comes from spending time with THE WORD.

A personal revelation of the true identity of Jesus comes from God through His word and daily interaction with His spirit.

c. “Upon THIS rock I will build my church.”

Jesus used Caesarea Philippi to illustrate this one point.

The church will be built upon His revealed identity, and it will never be defeated. In fact, Hell itself cannot defeat the church.

d. “and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell will not overcome it.

The word Hell, in this passage, is actually “Hades” which means the grave.

This is a direct reference to the future resurrection and rapture of the church. Jesus is saying that the grave will not hold my church, just like the grave will not hold me.

The reference to "the gates of Hell” is a powerful one.

Gates are defensive weapons, not offensive. They are not meant to make war, they are meant to keep something in, or out. In this case, the gates of Hell, or the grave, are used by Satan to keep the church in the ground.

But Jesus says, those gates are not powerful enough to hold my church in. My church is built upon a solid, everlasting rock that will never be eroded.

This church has:
• Staying power.
• Resurrection power.
• Everlasting life.

“O death where is thy sting, o grave where is thy victory.”

Simon Peter, after Jesus proved what he was saying by raising from the dead after three days, would stand at Pentecost and preach the GOSPEL of Jesus death, burial and resurrection.

• He preached it to give hope.
• He preached it to inspire devotion.
• He preached it to prove what he learned at Caesarea Philippi.

God is not dead, He’s alive! And he wants to give you that same resurrection power! We do not need memorials of Jesus etched in stone. No, He lives in us! Jesus is the Rock of Our Salvation!

Edward Anglin
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  #10  
Old 01-13-2011, 11:43 AM
DAII DAII is offline
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Re: Thomas Weisser Spoke At Our Church Tonight!

Alll about Jesus ... not our paradigms.
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