Is There A Difference?

[easter]

All believers are promised the Holy Spirit

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

Some people are sealed by the Holy Spirit but never manifest himself with any sign other then through the person.Such as how they show the fruit as being a christian.This is your typical christian.Someone who lives for the Lord but having never received a sign that they received the Holy Spirit other then a desire placed in them to learn all the ways of the Lord and placed in them a love for God and each other.
My question is...

Is there a difference between the Holy Spirit that seals each believer to the baptism into the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.The reason I ask is because what the next few verses say ...

Ephesians 1:15 For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[f] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Now I will post the scripture all together and when one reads this in Ephesians 1:-23 it sounds like there is the sealing and then there is more for those who seek after the Lord and desire the blessings from God

Ephesians 1:1-23
1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
To the saints in Ephesus,[a] the faithful[b] in Christ Jesus:

2Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Spiritual Blessings in Christ
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he[c] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
11In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

Thanksgiving and Prayer
15For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[f] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Is this right?Could this be why some do not receive the gifts and therefore some do not believe the gifts are for today?Some never go beyond the sealing of the Holy Spirit,maybe?

[Godsdrummer]

Easter

I used to teach and beleive that one had to speak in tongues as the sign of the infilment of the holy spirit. I also preached that you had to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus or you were not saved. I now understand that one is saved upon confesion of faith in the work of Jesus. That Gods spirit comes into our hearts at that time and begins a changeing work. That we need to seek deeper realms which include the power of the holy ghost. This does come with speaking in tongues. IMHO this by no means, mean that God's spirit does not come to live in the heart of the repentant.

Just my thoughts to get this thread going. LOL

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Easter

I used to teach and beleive that one had to speak in tongues as the sign of the infilment of the holy spirit. I also preached that you had to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus or you were not saved. I now understand that one is saved upon confesion of faith in the work of Jesus. That Gods spirit comes into our hearts at that time and begins a changeing work. That we need to seek deeper realms which include the power of the holy ghost. This does come with speaking in tongues. IMHO this by no means, mean that God's spirit does not come to live in the heart of the repentant.

Just my thoughts to get this thread going. LOL

sounds like you have reached the same place others here have reached.

[Sam]

Over Half a Century in the Holy Ghost

This is just a brief testimony of what the Lord has done for me.

In Isaiah 46:3-4 in The Living Bible God says, “Listen to me, all Israel who are left; I have created you and cared for you since you were born. I will be your God through all your lifetime, yes, even when your hair is white with age. I made you and I will care for you. I will carry you along and be your Savior.” The Lord assured His people that He loved them, cared for them, and was committed to a long term relationship with them.

I have also enjoyed a long term relationship with the Lord. I was born into a family that was not particularly religious so as I grew up, God was not a real part of my life. That all changed on March 28, 1955 when I asked Jesus Christ to come into my life. I was 17 years old and my life was drastically changed. I became a new creature. 2 Corinthians 5:17 says, “When someone becomes a Christian he becomes a brand new person inside. He is not the same any more. A new life has begun!”

A new life had begun. The change was so drastic that 50 years later at a high school reunion some still mentioned the “old” Jim and the “new” Jim. I began to read my Bible and joined a local church where I took an active part. As I read my Bible and listened to some preachers on the radio and read some of their writings I realized there was more for me. On October 27, 1955 I was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then I began attending a different church. This one was Pentecostal. On Pentecost Sunday which was May 20, 1956 I was baptized in the Holy Spirit and spoke with tongues.

This Holy Ghost Baptism was not the end of my experience with the Lord. The Lord and I have been in relationship for over half a century. During that time he has given me a wife to whom I have been married for 52 years. He has given me 5 children, 13 grandchildren, and 1 great grandchild. He has brought me through major surgeries (quadruple bypass in 1995 and cancer surgery in 2004) and has met every need in His way and in His time.

In 2006 the religious world celebrated a “Century of Pentecost (1906 - 2006)” and that year I celebrated “Half a Century of Pentecost.” This year on Pentecost Sunday (May 23, 2010) I celebrated 54 years in Pentecost. And, you know what, that experience in the Holy Spirit is still fresh! When Jacob was an old man and was introduced to Pharaoh, Pharaoh asked, “How old are you?” Jacob triumphantly replied, ”The days of my pilgrimage are one hundred thirty-eight years.” Well, I can’t quite say that but I can say, “The days of my pilgrimage are seventy-two years,” and I can triumphantly add, “And the Lord has been faithful all of those years.”

[Sam]

I have posted this out before.

This is from pages 83 - 85 of a book titled Charisma Versus Charismania by Chuck Smith copyright 1992

Recently a young man came up to me and said, “I
accepted Christ several years ago, but I was never too
excited about it. I found reading the Bible uninteresting. In
fact, my mind would wander, and I couldn’t really concentrate
on the Word. I never really knew what it was to worship
God, and my prayer life was erratic. But since I was
filled with the Spirit a few months ago, my life has completely
changed. I have a great love for the things of God.
I can’t seem to get enough of the Word, and now I love to
fellowship with the believers. What a great change has happened
in my life since I was filled with the Spirit!”

This story, with variations, has been told to me hundreds
of times over by those who have found that there is
something more than just having the Spirit indwelling their
life at conversion. We do recognize that every born again
believer has the Spirit dwelling in him. Writing in 1 Corinthians
6:19, Paul declares that our bodies are the temples of
the Holy Spirit who dwells in us. He also declares in 1 Corinthians
12:3 that you cannot call Christ Lord except by the
Spirit.

The Spirit and the Believer
There are three Greek prepositions used in the New Testament
to designate the different relationships of the Spirit
to the believer: para, en, and epi. In John 14:17 Jesus said
to His disciples concerning the Holy Spirit, “Ye know him;
for he dwelleth with [para] you and shall be in [en] you.”
Here a twofold relationship is expressed: para (with) and en
(in). The Holy Spirit was with us prior to our conversion. He
is the One who brought us conviction of sin and revealed
Christ as the answer. When we accepted Jesus as our Savior
and invited Him into our lives, the Holy Spirit began to
indwell us.

But God has something more—the beautiful empowering
through the epi relationship. Note that this is what
Jesus was promising His disciples just prior to His ascension.
In Luke 24:49 He said, “Behold, I send the promise of
my Father upon [epi] you” or “over you.” In Acts 1:8 He
said, “But ye shall receive power after that the Holy [Spirit]
is come upon [epi] you.”

We read in Acts 10:44 that the Holy Spirit descended
“upon” the Gentile believers in the house of Cornelius:
“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy [Spirit] fell
upon [epi] all of them which heard the word.” In Acts 19:6,
when Paul laid hands upon the Ephesian believers, the
Holy Spirit came upon [epi] them.

We read in Acts 8 that Philip had gone to Samaria and
preached Christ unto them; many people believed Philip’s
preaching of the things of the kingdom of God and the
name of Jesus Christ, and they were baptized. If there is
just one baptism (Ephesians 4:5), then we must accept that
at this point the Samaritan believers were baptized by the
Spirit into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13), and the
Holy Spirit began to indwell them. It is obvious, however,
that there was yet a further relationship to the Holy Spirit
to be received, for when the church in Jerusalem heard that
the Samaritans had received the gospel, they sent Peter and
John unto them that they might pray for them to receive
the Holy Spirit, for as yet He had fallen upon [epi] none of
them.

The Overflowing Life
When Paul came to the church in Ephesus and found
that the believers’ experience was lacking, possibly in love
or joy and zeal, he asked them, “Did you receive the Holy
Spirit when you believed?” If the full relationship with the
Spirit is attained simultaneously with conversion, the question
makes no sense. The question itself acknowledged a
relationship deeper and beyond the conversion experience.
What they were lacking was the epi relationship with the
Holy Spirit, for that is what resulted when Paul laid his
hands upon them in Acts 19:6: “and the Spirit came upon
[epi] them.”

Being filled with the Spirit adds new dimensions of
love, joy, and exuberance to the Christian life. If Paul the
apostle would meet you and begin to share the glories of
Christ with you, would he be apt to ask, “Did you receive
the Spirit when you believed?” God wants your life not to
just be indwelt or even filled with the Spirit. He wants your
life to overflow.

[Sam]

I have posted this out before but thought I would post it again.


In response to some questions about a person having the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost or Spirit of Christ dwelling within them or being born of the Spirit and then a subsequent post salvation experience called a filling with the Spirit, or the Spirit coming upon, or a baptism in the Spirit, I previously posted the following:

Chuck Smith's premise in the book, "Charisma Vs. Charismania," is, if I understand him correctly, that there is an experience called salvation, or regeneration (being born again), or the birth of the Spirit which takes place when a person comes to Jesus in faith and repentance and calls upon the Lord for salvation. Also, at that time the Holy Spirit places/plunges/baptizes/immerses the person into Christ or into the body of Christ. This is what he is calling "en" or the Spirit within. He also states that there is a subsequent experience of the Spirit coming upon (epi) which can be separate from the salvation experience. This "epi" experience could be likened to being baptized in the Spirit or to being saturated with the Spirit or being plunged into the Spirit much like baptism in water. We some times use the term "one birth and many fillings" to describe the activity of the Holy Spirit in the life of a believer.

There are differences of opinion on just when the Apostle Peter was "born of the Spirit" but prior to His ascension Jesus told him and others to wait in Jerusalem until they were endued with power which He called a baptism in the Spirit. Some of us believe that happened 10 days later at Pentecost as recorded in Acts 2:1-4 when it says they were filled with the Spirit. Later, in chapter 4 we read again of Peter being filled with the Spirit as he spoke to the Jewish leaders (Acts 4:8) and again later when he was praying with a group of believers (Acts 4:31). Some of us believe that Peter was saved before Pentecost and the experience he received in Acts chapter 2 was a filling or empowerment of the Spirit or a baptism in the Spirit.

This pattern of a birth of the Spirit or salvation followed by a subsequent filling by the Spirit, or a baptism in the Spirit, or the Spirit coming upon, or the Spirit falling upon can be seen a couple of times in the Book of Acts.

The traditional date for the conversion of the Apostle Paul is January 25, AD 32 where he encountered the risen Christ outside Damascus. At this encounter he evidently believed Jesus was risen from the dead and he called him "Lord." Yet it wasn't until three days later when Ananias came into him that he was filled with the Spirit through the laying on of hands.

Also, Acts chapter 8 shows (in the opinion of some) this same distinction. In the winter of AD 31/32 Philip went to Samaria and preached Christ to them. The people responded by believing (receiving the Word according to Acts 8:14) and were baptized in water. So, this is seen as a salvation or born again experience when the Spirit came into them and placed/baptized them into the Body of Christ. Then some time later (we're not told how much time went by) , by the laying on of hands these believers received the Spirit or the Spirit came or fell upon them.

This is also seen by the way the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch is recorded in some texts and quoted in some manuscripts. Notice that Philip would not consent to the baptism of the eunuch until he was assure that he was a believer. Then, subsequent to his baptism in water, the Spirit fell upon him:
"36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized? 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” 38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord fell upon the eunuch and the angel of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing. 40 But Philip was found at Azotus. And passing through, he preached in all the cities till he came to Caesarea."

Again, not to belabor the point.

The experience of Cornelius around 38 AD is seen a couple of different ways. While Peter was preaching, the sermon was interrupted by Cornelius and others speaking with tongues. Some see this speaking with tongues to be the new birth experience. Others believe that when these Gentiles believed and accepted the Word as preached by Peter they were born again (Spirit came to dwell within) and as they rejoiced in their new found experience they were also filled with the Spirit or baptized in the Spirit or the Spirit came upon (epi) them.

Similarly in Acts 19 which probably occurred around October in AD 53. There are some things we don't know about just what happened there. We do know that when Paul questioned them they said they had not even heard that there was a Holy Ghost. This seems strange because the message of John the Baptist was that he was the one who would baptize in water but One who would baptize in the Holy Spirit would come after him. We do know that Paul explained that they should believe on Jesus Christ, they were baptized in water, and when hands were placed upon them the Spirit came on them (again, the epi experience) and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

A separate filling is also found in the Epistle to the Ephesians. This letter was written to the saints and faithful in Ephesus so we figure they were saved and indwelt by the Spirit. Paul alludes to the Spirit being in them in verse 13 when he says "And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago." A couple of chapters later in 5:17-20 he encourages them to be "filled with the Spirit" or to be "ongoingly filled with the Spirit" or to be "being filled with the Spirit" as it is some times said. I do not read Greek but I have been told that this exhortation to be filled with the Spirit is:
in the imperative mode,
in the present tense continuous,
in the plural number,
and in the passive voice.
So, it is an experience that is available, can be received, can be experienced more than once, and happens after salvation.

Sorry this got so long. It is not an attempt to argue, just to explain that among Pentecostals (both trinity and oneness) there are those who believe that the birth of the Spirit can be followed by subsequent works of the Spirit such as a baptism in the Spirit, or the Spirit coming upon, or the Spirit falling on, or being filled with the Spirit, or receiving the Spirit.

[mfblume]

I believe and teach that Paul's words in Ephesians that speak of the spirit of wisdom and revelation is not speaking about the Holy Ghost, but rather our human spirits rendered sensitive so we can discern truths.

I see no difference in the sealing of the Holy Ghost and the baptism for power, personally. It's all one and the same experience, and speaking in tongues indicates when that experience began.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I believe and teach that Paul's words in Ephesians that speak of the spirit of wisdom and revelation is not speaking about the Holy Ghost, but rather our human spirits rendered sensitive so we can discern truths.

That would be the most reasonable explanation as the Book of Ephesians opens with the words, "...to the saints which are at Ephesus...". He is addressing the church, which was already spirit filled.

Clearly, the writer in Ephesians wants us to draw closer to God. We know that it is possible to become more sensitive and knowledgeable in the Spirit when we do so. I believe that is why it can be written in 1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will." and why I Cor 14:1 encourages us to "desire" spiritual gifts."

All of these things are conditional toward our desire to pursue and draw closer to God.

I see no difference in the sealing of the Holy Ghost and the baptism for power, personally. It's all one and the same experience, and speaking in tongues indicates when that experience began.

I have never seen the scripture support any view other than the Holy Ghost providing both sealing, power and the evidence - the selfsame Spirit.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Easter

I used to teach and beleive that one had to speak in tongues as the sign of the infilment of the holy spirit. I also preached that you had to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus or you were not saved. I now understand that one is saved upon confesion of faith in the work of Jesus. That Gods spirit comes into our hearts at that time and begins a changeing work. That we need to seek deeper realms which include the power of the holy ghost. This does come with speaking in tongues. IMHO this by no means, mean that God's spirit does not come to live in the heart of the repentant.

Just my thoughts to get this thread going. LOL

Well, that means like 80% or so of population is saved then.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I believe and teach that Paul's words in Ephesians that speak of the spirit of wisdom and revelation is not speaking about the Holy Ghost, but rather our human spirits rendered sensitive so we can discern truths.

I see no difference in the sealing of the Holy Ghost and the baptism for power, personally. It's all one and the same experience, and speaking in tongues indicates when that experience began.

That's what I believe too, Bro. Blume. It began for me the summer of 1958, 52 yrs. ago. It's more real today than when I first begun!

Growing up Dad would teach the little ones to:

Read your Bible, pray every day, pray every day,
pray every day. Read your Bible, pray every day,
and you'll grow, grow, grow.

In a Bible study as a young wife and mother, Dad would say, "If we don't pray and read God's Word, we can't live for God. Knowing how much I needed HIM, I remember struggling with being a wife, mother, etc., etc., and finding time to pray and read my Bible daily. I would remember Dad's words, If you don't pray and read God's Word, you can't live for God". I would find renewed strength to MAKE time.

Today the Word is the most interesting book I read. I never liked novels. Don't give me fiction, give me something that is TRUE! I don't have time even today for things that are just a fiction story. Give me TRUTH. The KNOWLEDGE of THE TRUTH is what will set us free! HE/SHE whom the Son sets free is free INDEED!

Falla39