What would you think of a Minister starting another Apostolic church an 1/8 of a mile away from your church?
I am from WA state and the city population is 38,000. If you tallied the whole county we would be talking a population of hundred thousand.
Anyway, this Minister use to have the only UPC church in the city but left 20years ago due to heat from un-ethical conduct. Now there are two UPC churches, one the ministers original church, and the other a split off from the original church. The two UPC churches are about 3 miles apart.
The one I attend is 1/4 mile away from a PAW church and soon to be right next door (1/8 mile) to a WWPF church if this Ministers plans come to pass. The returning Pastor is not welcomed by either UPC Pastor including one, who is his younger brother, in which they are no longer on speaking terms. You can't make stuff like this up outside of the UPC (and now WWPF too). He is not on speaking terms with his brother b/c of moving back and wanting his own church. He has not called or spoken to my Pastor, but has called and visited all his old saints and tried subtle recruitment efforts.
In my opinion his efforts have been very un-ethical. Also starting another Apostolic church 1/8 of mile away from another one is not likely to win any favors from my Pastor who is somewhat shookup over the whole deal.
He should at least start a church some distance away instead of competing in the same neighborhood as my church.
Any thoughts? I met him this weekend out of respect as my first Pastor and everything was friendly but I would never sit under him again b/c of his serious control issues. Great preacher though.
The dumbest "notion" is one where someone goes to a city and says they are going to start a church...rather than build a church. Stealing christians from other churches is not building a church
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Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
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That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
What would you think of a Minister starting another Apostolic church an 1/8 of a mile away from your church?
I am from WA state and the city population is 38,000. If you tallied the whole county we would be talking a population of hundred thousand.
Anyway's this Minister use to have the only UPC church in the city but left 20years ago due to heat from un-ethical conduct. Now there are two UPC churches, one the ministers original church, and the other a split off from the original church. The two UPC churches are about 3 miles apart.
The one I attend is 1/4 mile away from a PAW church and soon to be right next door (1/8 mile) to a WWPF church if this Ministers plans come to pass. The returning Pastor is not welcomed by either UPC Pastor including one, who is his younger brother, in which they are no longer on speaking terms. You can't make stuff like this up outside of the UPC (and now WWPF too). He is not on speaking terms with his brother b/c of moving back and wanting his own church. He has not called or spoken to my Pastor, but has called and visited all his old saints and tried subtle recruitment efforts.
In my opinion his efforts have been very un-ethical. Also starting another Apostolic church 1/8 of mile away from another one is not likely to win any favors from my Pastor who is somewhat shookup over the whole deal.
He should at least start a church some distance away instead of competing in the same neighborhood as my church.
Any thoughts? I met him this weekend out of respect as my first Pastor and everything was friendly but I would never sit under him again b/c of his serious control issues. Great preacher though.
The only thing I have the problem with is the visiting of the sheep he USED to pastor but which now are pastored by ANOTHER. I DESPISE THAT.
However the location really is pretty irrelevant when you think about it.
Most people that attend a church dont come because of the proximity of the building neighbourhood wise, but rather are won on the job or in school or in some shared place of interchange with people who DO go to said church.
One question, does your proximity to the PAW church affect your churches attendance in the slightest way pro or con?
This reminds me of that stretch of highway I 10 there in the Lousiana/Texas border area. As you are heading west on the right hand side you have FIRST UNITED PENTECOSTAL CHURCH and then what....30 feet away FIRST APOSTOLIC CHURCH. Its hilarious! Oh and then in North Carolina there is actually in a residential neighbourhood an intersection that literally has on one corner an independent Apostolic Church, directly across the street on the OTHER corner is a PAW church, on the OTHER corner is an Apostolic Assemblies church (Mexican church) and then on the other corner, well actually about a quarter of a block down is the UPC church! And I asked the pastor of the independent church if 1.) they deliberately did that purchasing the property there (They had the newest of the four buildings) he told me "No one of the members of the church donated the property to us years ago and we just built there recently. and then 2.) I asked him does being in such close proximity to the other churches affect him? And he said "No strangely enough it doesnt they might as well be ten miles away as across the street." And I think that will pretty much sum up what your experience will be. ASIDE FROM what appears to be a DASTARDLY attempt at pulling members from their church, you should have no real affect from it at all.
My advice: Don't give him any "press" either from the pulpit or in conversation. View him as a threat and he will become one. Make him a non-issue and people won't want to see what is going on.
We need to learn to ACT and not React.
__________________
"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
The dumbest "notion" is one where someone goes to a city and says they are going to start a church...rather than build a church. Stealing christians from other churches is not building a church
They're just trying to be a light in the darkness!
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Just be who you are and you will attract people that none of these other churches will attract. If there are a hundred thousand people in your area, then there are THOUSANDS who are unchurched. Focus on them and don't worry about those who would just church hop between Pentecostal places. Go for the lost and you will always have a crowd! Ignore the new guy and do what God has called you to do.
I think the statistics are....only 4 percent of our US population attend church on a regular basis. There are more people at our local wal mart on a given sunday than there are people in church!(in a 24 hr period). "the fields are white unto harvest!"
What would you think of a Minister starting another Apostolic church an 1/8 of a mile away from your church?
I am from WA state and the city population is 38,000. If you tallied the whole county we would be talking a population of hundred thousand.
Anyway's this Minister use to have the only UPC church in the city but left 20years ago due to heat from un-ethical conduct. Now there are two UPC churches, one the ministers original church, and the other a split off from the original church. The two UPC churches are about 3 miles apart.
The one I attend is 1/4 mile away from a PAW church and soon to be right next door (1/8 mile) to a WWPF church if this Ministers plans come to pass. The returning Pastor is not welcomed by either UPC Pastor including one, who is his younger brother, in which they are no longer on speaking terms. You can't make stuff like this up outside of the UPC (and now WWPF too). He is not on speaking terms with his brother b/c of moving back and wanting his own church. He has not called or spoken to my Pastor, but has called and visited all his old saints and tried subtle recruitment efforts.
In my opinion his efforts have been very un-ethical. Also starting another Apostolic church 1/8 of mile away from another one is not likely to win any favors from my Pastor who is somewhat shookup over the whole deal.
He should at least start a church some distance away instead of competing in the same neighborhood as my church.
Any thoughts? I met him this weekend out of respect as my first Pastor and everything was friendly but I would never sit under him again b/c of his serious control issues. Great preacher though.
Romans,
1. I agree it is silly, wrong, unwise, and unethical for a preacher to start a church 1/8 mile from another one preaching the same doctrinal message. If the idea is that the town is indeed large enough to support another church then that new church should geographically be placed in an area of town that makes sense, fartherest away from the existing churches.
2. Having said #1 I also agree with those who say take the high road and be Christian about these activities. Two wrongs don't make a right as mama used to say. I would pay them no mind and just keep doing what you are doing. When I attended an exUPC church in a pretty large city and 10 years after the church left the UPC a guy came and started a church about a mile down the road from ours my pastors wife told me that she didn't mind. Her husband, my pastor, also stated from the pulpit that his philosophy was let them back a bus up and load up all of the people who want to leave and go to another church. People are going to do what they are going to do and if they are ethical good Christians they won't be church jumping for no good reason. If they do you are probably better off without them.
3. Regarding the two preachers who are brothers and not speaking to each other. Shame on both of them for not being good examples of Christianity and the fruit of the Spirit.
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
If he pulls members from your church (or the other nearby oneness), he will most likely only get the "trouble." I don't think God will honor or bless him because it seems his intentions are not right. His bitter attitude towards his brother is a shame. How can he love the Father who he has not seen when he can't love the brother he has seen?
One question, does your proximity to the PAW church affect your churches attendance in the slightest way pro or con?
Not at all. There church is predominantly a black church, and our church is a mixture of black, white and Latino.
We had one family leave our church and go to the PAW church last year but I don't think that has ever happened before. I believe it is because they are not as "Apostolic" as they once were. They don't worship anything like they use to and doctrine is not preached at all. I have talked to saints from there church that don't even know how they were baptized.
Marvin Williams from the Atlanta Hawks did come out of there church though. lol His unlce played on our church basketball team for many years
George - as in curious
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