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  #1  
Old 07-07-2008, 03:26 PM
JN Anderson's Avatar
JN Anderson JN Anderson is offline
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The Plight of the Liberal:

The plight of the liberal is freedom. Who knows if or when one is a liberal, or whether or not they are acting liberal? The point is that they are with us; this plight is with us. It is with us as much as they are with us. Since the Fall in the Garden liberalism has been de-constructing what God originally designed and intended. Liberal thought is basically a thought pattern or intent to liberate man from certain standards or restrictions thereby increasing a sense of freedom. In some sense freedom is necessary for Truth to survive and become known.

For example, truth is the relationship between our thoughts and reality. If I called a friend and told him that I posted a particular thread on this forum and that, later, I wanted him to read that thread. My friend would only have my word and his thoughts until he got to his computer and went to JP and saw the reality. The reality that I indeed did post a particular thread. Truth is the relationship between thoughts and reality. Freedom then enables us to know truth. Thankfully we know the Truth of God's Word today because of freedom that we enjoy. Freedom that liberal thinking people took from tyranny. Liberal then is a bit relative.

The issue becomes absurd and confusing when freedom is conceived of as self-autonomy. Liberty without order is not liberty but soon to be infringement upon another person's freedom. In fact, to have liberty you must be willing to give it to others.

Quote:
When liberty destroys order, the hunger for order will destroy liberty. Will Durant
Those who overtly seek freedom from laws can become lawless and no longer be free. Their liberating conquest is now an enemy unto themselves and has bound them to the consequences of aloneness and self-governance. When one's liberties, like those of terrorism, begin to embark upon the liberties and freedoms of others then order must destroy that liberty to survive. There is and will always be a thin line between freedom and order; freedom and authority.

Voltaire once said, "man is free at the moment he wishes to be." In some sense this is true, yet man only becomes free from one taskmaster to become property of another.

Adam and Eve realized after the Fall that they could not hide from God within the leaves and cover of the Garden of Eden. God indeed found them. Now man seeks to hide within himself. Man, inwardly, is constantly wishing and wanting to be free from constraint...to be self-autonomous. In fact, in large part this is the plight of the atheist too. He does not want a God over him.

No human will be without the struggle of flesh and spirit. No human will find true happiness and contentment without following after God and yielding control to His Holy Spirit. Man cannot find Eden on His own. Eden is no longer a place on the map, it is a relationship with God.

Quote:
Galatians 5:1 NIV
(1) is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Galatians 5:24 NIV
(24) Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
Galatians 5 speaks of our freedom in Christ and to not turn to the yokes of slavery. Yet we must hold such words in contrast to vs. 24. Paul says we "belong" to Christ. Just three chapters earlier Paul stated:

Quote:
Galatians 2:20 NIV
(20) I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
No we are not slaves to this world, but we have indeed chosen to crucify ourselves. To die and then live again as Christ lives in us. We BELONG to Christ. Having it "your way" may work for fast-food but it does not work for the Apostolic lifestyle. We are in a race and in such a race let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. We must endure and finish the race. Sin will cause us to miss this mark.

Everyday man is in a battle with his humanity. In fact, humanity may once again, take control, reach its pinnacle and bring human thought and intellect back to its darkest times. When one tends toward liberalism, indeed if one ever feels the need for this plight, he should ask himself four questions.

1. Am I attempting to make more room for my flesh to glory?
2. How much room have I made to glorify God lately?
3. Will this liberty prove too heavy for me in this race?
4. Who is in control here? Me or God.
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  #2  
Old 07-07-2008, 03:37 PM
SDG SDG is offline
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

Flawed on the premise that freedom will always = lawlessness or leads to it....

That somehow your paradigm is the guardrails prescribed by God or even bible based

And that somehow a liberal has no standards or disdains authority ...

You have described anarchy ... the lawless man.

Always at question ... are the laws God ordained and bible based ???... not if they are to be obeyed.
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  #3  
Old 07-07-2008, 03:38 PM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

Great article! I accept the premise when using the word liberal as it applies to the political world. Not so much as to it's true definition.

Example:
Ted Kennedy is a liberal.

and

One can "liberally" apply spices to a dish.

Politically I am a right wing conservative on most social and nearly all economic issues. But I also like to be able to think outside of the box and engage in new ideas. Galileo and Copernicus were "liberals" per the Catholic church for daring to prove and explain how the Earth circled around the Sun versus the other way around. In this example the "Conservatives" of the day are equated with being "close minded".
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:45 PM
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JN Anderson JN Anderson is offline
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Flawed on the premise that freedom will always = lawlessness or lead to it....

That somehow your paradigm is the guardrails prescribed by God or even bible based

And that somehow a liberal has no standards or disdains authority ...

You have described anarchy ... the lawless man.

Always at question is are the laws God ordained and bible based ... not if they are to be obeyed.
That is your premise, not mine. Nothing like attempting stack your own deck. I noticed your still editing though...continue.
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  #5  
Old 07-07-2008, 03:48 PM
Brad Murphy Brad Murphy is offline
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

Sabellius confuses me... he talks like an ultra-con but is smiling in his picture....
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  #6  
Old 07-07-2008, 03:49 PM
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JN Anderson JN Anderson is offline
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne View Post
Great article! I accept the premise when using the word liberal as it applies to the political world. Not so much as to it's true definition.

Example:
Ted Kennedy is a liberal.

and

One can "liberally" apply spices to a dish.

Politically I am a right wing conservative on most social and nearly all economic issues. But I also like to be able to think outside of the box and engage in new ideas. Galileo and Copernicus were "liberals" per the Catholic church for daring to prove and explain how the Earth circled around the Sun versus the other way around. In this example the "Conservatives" of the day are equated with being "close minded".
True. Notice that I pointed this out:

Quote:
Liberal thought is basically a thought pattern or intent to liberate man from certain standards or restrictions thereby increasing a sense of freedom. In some sense freedom is necessary for Truth to survive and become known...

...Thankfully we know the Truth of God's Word today because of freedom that we enjoy. Freedom that liberal thinking people took from tyranny. Liberal then is a bit relative...

The issue becomes absurd and confusing when freedom is conceived of as self-autonomy. Liberty without order is not liberty but soon to be infringement upon another person's freedom. In fact, to have liberty you must be willing to give it to others.
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  #7  
Old 07-07-2008, 03:50 PM
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JN Anderson JN Anderson is offline
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Murphy View Post
Sabellius confuses me... he talks like an ultra-con but is smiling in his picture....
No, I am not ultra-con. But I am like Sojourner Truth:

Quote:
"I feel safe even in the midst of my enemies; for the truth is powerful and will prevail. "
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:53 PM
SDG SDG is offline
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabellius View Post
That is your premise, not mine. Nothing like attempting stack your own deck. I noticed your still editing though...continue.
Really Sabellius ...

Quote:
Those who overtly seek freedom from laws can become lawless and no longer be free. Their liberating conquest is now an enemy unto themselves and has bound them to the consequences of aloneness and self-governance.
Once again we go to the ethereal world of "what ifs" and "may happen"

Imagine if your thinking on the dangers of seeking freedom would have been heeded during our colonial rule ... slavery ... segregation ...

The powers that be in the struggle for control have always used arguments like these to maintain there control.

Is it too much for a scholar such as yourself to question the soundness and validity of a paradigm, a rule, or tradition in light of the ultimate authority ... God's Word?
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  #9  
Old 07-07-2008, 03:53 PM
SDG SDG is offline
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

Sabellius is a moderate at best ... who caters to his peers, IMO.
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  #10  
Old 07-07-2008, 03:54 PM
Brad Murphy Brad Murphy is offline
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Sabellius is a moderate at best ... who caters to his peers, IMO.
Just living in East Texas gives him a couple of ultra-con points...
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