Could the UPCI/ALJC, etc. become bypassed by God?

[HolyFire]

John the Baptist came from nobody from nowhere when he came onto the scene. While God often sent a message from the establishment (Isaiah, Elisha), he often had his "outsiders" (Elijah, Amos). In John's day God completely went outside of the revealed structure that, for the most part, God ordained and setup. The followers seeking God had to go to the middle of the desert to hear a message that should have been heard in Jerusalem. However, the Pharisees and Saducees were too concerned with posturing for position and personal pietous appearances to hear God.

John had been in the desert for what appears several years before he began his ministry. He paved the way for Messiah to come. Outside of a few exceptions, God was done with the priests in Jerusalem. He was against what God was against (repent!!!), and for what God was for (He will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and fire!!!). He was the voice of the One.

In our movement we have our pharisees, i.e. standards at the cost of spiritual life - the clothesline is more important than God, righteous, no peace and joy, no mention of true holiness being the nature of God Himself. We also have our saducees who are mostly about show, no preaching of sin or hell and, to put it southern terms, - "fat meat ain't greasy" (sorry, had to do it). Instead of seeking first the kingdom, many, like the priesthood of John's day, try to set up their own kingdom in God's kingdom. We, as a people, have become comfortable, content, complacent, critical, carnal, comatose, and apathetic towards God and the world around us. The opinion of men have become more important that "The Voice". Our own opinion pales in our spirit to the law and Spirit of God.

American Apostolics, we are not ready for "revival". I use quotations because it is a misnomer. We need a sovereign move of God, an awakening, a movement wide repentance. In many (not all mind you) of our churches mammon is the king, not the King of all Kings. To us a quote, we are saved, sanctified, and satisfied.

God bypassed the ministry of that time, He is not beyond doing it again. I was praying and the Lord spoke to me in a way He had not in some time. It was both personal and corporate. I will keep the personal word personal, but I will share the corp. word.

"My people have forgotten Me."

"They honor Me with their lips but their heart is far from me. They come to church and bless Me with form and fashion, going through the rituals and motions, but when they leave they have forgotten Me by the next day."

"There is no fear of Me anymore."

"My people want miracles, signs, and wonders; I want a holy people (NOT standards, the NATURE of God, parenthesis mine). Give Me a holy people and I can give you miracles, signs, and wonders."

"You have made My standards filthy rags of righteousness."

You may or may not believe me. I really don't care. What's going to happen when the Messianic Jews or Baptists (yes, I mean the SOUTHERN Baptist) pass us. The Word will continue to reveal Himself. Will we, the primary vehicles of God's glorious message point the way or will we have to be shown the way back? We don't have the market cornered on Jesus Christ and His message. God is looking for holy vessels to fill with His Word, Spirit, and boldness so that He can, in turn, pour it all back out to the world that need to hear about the Mighty God and Suffering Savior.

Personally, I am finally convinced the Stonekings, Barnes's, Freeman's among us are right. I am too the point in all of this I am going to be a vessel that keeps my ear tuned to Him. I don't care if I pray them through at work, Wal-Mart, or Winn-Dixie. The 120 came out of the four wall of their meeting place when the fire fell from much continued prayer. The message and His power will leave the four walls of our churches and the confines of our mouths and spirits when there is a fire falling. I won't be bypassed by God.

[Jack Shephard]

Interesting. I will say it is very dangerous when you build a monunment out of a movement because God moved a certain time and place moons ago. God, I believe wants us to move forward. Not forgetting what and where we have been but moving into our destiny as a movement. God is not always in the same places He has been previously. If He were he would have never made earth, never came to earth, never died for earth, and never set earth free, IMO. Trying to box God in is not right and God can definately break down our boxes.

[Sam]

In my opinion, you paint our organizations with too broad a brush.
Yes, there are politics and politicians; yes, there are men-pleasers; yes, there are those who are more concerned with the outward and visible than with real consecration and devotion to God; yes, there are those who labor to defend the status quo; but there are also many sincere, Godly folks (both ministers and members) who seek first the kingship or rule of Jesus in their lives. Maybe they are not so visible but I am sure there are a lot of them.

"Revival?" it means life from the dead according to my understanding of Romans 14:9 in the KJV. I'm sure there are churches and individuals who have become dried up, formal, and are dying or even dead. We all have a tendency to get that way if we are not eternally vigilant.

[HolyFire]

I didn't mean to portray the org's as a whole were backslidden. I know there are good, godly people in our midst and honest hearted pastors and preachers who want a harvest. However, there is a stagnation of the move of God He wants. Forgive me brother for portraying the entirety so negatively. God wants to move through entire communities but He's being hindered. When God shared what He did I was thrown back because I thought, outside of Tulsa, we were making progress as a whole.

God Bless

[Sam]

OK, maybe I sounded too harsh. I do think our spirituality is an individual thing between each of us and the Lord.

As far as organizations go, they can get to the point where their greatest goal is self-perpetuation.

Is God bypassing our organizations? In my opinion, God is not ignorant of our organizations. He knows they exist, but He does not recognize them as anything else than man made groups for whatever reason. He is not bound by nor controlled nor channeled by our organizations or structure.

I think we've seen that over time when God has poured out His Spirit on people who hunger and thirst for Him. I remember the "Healing Revival" from the late nineteen forties and nineteen fifties; the "Jesus People" and the "charismatic movement" from the nine teen sixties and seventies. People were receiving the Holy Spirit baptism and not joining our Pentecostal organizations. Some of us (myself included) questioned the genuineness of their experience because they did not look like us and did not act like us and did not come to us to receive God's Spirit. We thought that the Apostolic churches had an exclusive franchise on God's Spirit and God showed us differently.

[Michael The Disciple]

Altho the Baptists and Messianics have not passed the Pentecostals on the Oneness teaching there may be a good number of them that have received the Holy Spirit.

And as far as Apostolic orgs I feel that the move of the Spirit probably left them many years ago. Not that one cant be saved among them but as far as the dynamic move leading to the restoration and perfection of the Church these orgs have no clue.

[HolyFire]

But the Spirit will fall on the SBC and the Messanic (I think) believe in One God by nature of their Hebrew faith.

The SBC are probably, besides the Churches of Christ, the most written Word oriented group I know of. I think once a large enough group of them received the Holy Ghost baptism the revelation will come.

[Traci]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Interesting. I will say it is very dangerous when you build a monunment out of a movement because God moved a certain time and place moons ago. God, I believe wants us to move forward. Not forgetting what and where we have been but moving into our destiny as a movement. God is not always in the same places He has been previously. If He were he would have never made earth, never came to earth, never died for earth, and never set earth free, IMO. Trying to box God in is not right and God can definately break down our boxes.

You know, most people, when they feel they have "arrived" don't want to go anywhere. They don't like change and they definintly don't want out of the box.
Lord help me get outside of my comfort zone. There is a big lost world out there

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by HolyFire

But the Spirit will fall on the SBC and the Messanic (I think) believe in One God by nature of their Hebrew faith.

The SBC are probably, besides the Churches of Christ, the most written Word oriented group I know of. I think once a large enough group of them received the Holy Ghost baptism the revelation will come.

Problem is most Messianics are Trinitarian. Also in recent years there is a move among them of becoming Arians. There are thankfully a few Oneness among them.

[Lafon]

Allow me to begin these remarks by stating that I fully understand the point HolyFire is making, and this because the occasion arose whenever I also questioned why we, as a collective body, and especially in the US, seem to have become somewhat complacent or smug in our worship and devotion to the things of God, while at the same time there seems to be great fervor for, and also moves of God in foreign lands, the likes of which, in many instances might be likened to the happenings during the Azuza Street Revival of the early 20th century here in the US. Because of the thoughts which I pondered about this matter, I sought the Lord, via studying His written word, prayer and fasting, to also understand the underlying reason for this condition.

Being a firm believer that there always exists an underlying reason for all things (albeit we generally fail to recognize it), I believed that there had to be a cause. And here is what I discovered:

The prophet Zechariah was granted a vision from God in which he witnessed four chariots that came out from between two mountains (we find this described in detail in Zechariah chapter 6). In each of these chariots were horses of various colors. In verse 6 we are told that the chariot containing the black horses went into the north country, and in verse 8 we are also told that these same horses (which were actually "spirits" - see verse 5), had the effect of causing the Spirit of God to be "quieted" there.

Now the important aspect of this vision which I believed to be most important in understanding, was determining an answer to this question - What does the term "north country" mean? After careful consideration I am persuaded that it refers to the northern hemisphere regions of our world, for whenever one compares the great moves of God which is presently taking place in the southern hemisphere regions, we find an extremely distinctive difference. Can this be due to the "quieting" influence of the "black horses" (i.e., "spirits") which have invaded the northern hemisphere regions of our world? I think so!

Just some personal thoughts about this matter and I submit them for the careful, and prayerful consideration to everyone here.