I have a serious question ?

Joelel · #1 03-21-2007, 10:43 AM

Hi Everyone,I'm a little new to this forum and have a question for everyone.Please try to stick to the subject because I believe the Church has a serious problem.Please be serious about your answers.

I left UPCI in 1970 but left for greater holiness standards.My question is why do most people who leave let their standards down when the word teaches holiness and with out holiness no one can see the Lord ? Do these people really think they can be saved without obeying the word ? I mean why do they even mess with Church when they will be lost in the end ? Are they really deceived into believing they are really saved ? Do they not study the word for themselves and just let the blind leaders lead them ? I know some UPCI Church assemblies try to put standards of men on people but i'm not talking about mans standards,i'm talking about Jesus and the true apostolic standards as written in the word.Do people really think they can live any life and believe any lie and be saved ?

Kutless · #2 03-21-2007, 10:47 AM

I am confused as to what stndards you are talking about that are written in the word. Sorry.

Would you mind pointing me to that reference please.

Nahum · #3 03-21-2007, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joelel

Hi Everyone,I'm a little new to this forum and have a question for everyone.Please try to stick to the subject because I believe the Church has a serious problem.Please be serious about your answers.

I left UPCI in 1970 but left for greater holiness standards.My question is why do most people who leave let their standards down when the word teaches holiness and with out holiness no one can see the Lord ? Do these people really think they can be saved without obeying the word ? I mean why do they even mess with Church when they will be lost in the end ? Are they really deceived into believing they are really saved ? Do they not study the word for themselves and just let the blind leaders lead them ? I know some UPCI Church assemblies try to put standards of men on people but i'm not talking about mans standards,i'm talking about Jesus and the true apostolic standards as written in the word.Do people really think they can live any life and believe any lie and be saved ?

Yes, people believe they can live any life, and believe any lie, and be saved.

Its called rationalization, every man does what is right in his OWN eyes. That is why there is a de-emphasis on all things biblical, and a greater emphasis on how God makes you FEEL.

Rhoni · #4 03-21-2007, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joelel

Hi Everyone,I'm a little new to this forum and have a question for everyone.Please try to stick to the subject because I believe the Church has a serious problem.Please be serious about your answers.

I left UPCI in 1970 but left for greater holiness standards.My question is why do most people who leave let their standards down when the word teaches holiness and with out holiness no one can see the Lord ? Do these people really think they can be saved without obeying the word ? I mean why do they even mess with Church when they will be lost in the end ? Are they really deceived into believing they are really saved ? Do they not study the word for themselves and just let the blind leaders lead them ? I know some UPCI Church assemblies try to put standards of men on people but i'm not talking about mans standards,i'm talking about Jesus and the true apostolic standards as written in the word.Do people really think they can live any life and believe any lie and be saved ?

Joelel,

The problem is the definition of holiness. God is holy. Jesus is God. There is not one scripture to support the definition of holiness as it applies to dress standards. The nature and character of God is what Christians should seek after but men have always wanted to prove their righteousness by comparing themselves to others instead. We cannot make ourselves holy by making more and more rules and laws to live by or the Old Testament Law would have been enough.

It is much too easy for people to get the concept of putting on Christ's righteousness through his imputed grace. They would rather bicker on forums trying to boast their greatness for all the holiness standards the profess to live by.

Blessings, Rhoni

Digging4Truth · #5 03-21-2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joelel

Hi Everyone,I'm a little new to this forum and have a question for everyone.Please try to stick to the subject because I believe the Church has a serious problem.Please be serious about your answers.

I left UPCI in 1970 but left for greater holiness standards.My question is why do most people who leave let their standards down when the word teaches holiness and with out holiness no one can see the Lord ? Do these people really think they can be saved without obeying the word ? I mean why do they even mess with Church when they will be lost in the end ? Are they really deceived into believing they are really saved ? Do they not study the word for themselves and just let the blind leaders lead them ? I know some UPCI Church assemblies try to put standards of men on people but i'm not talking about mans standards,i'm talking about Jesus and the true apostolic standards as written in the word.Do people really think they can live any life and believe any lie and be saved ?

You have made mention of the scripture...

Hbr 12:14 Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Alright... biblically speaking... what is holiness. We can begin there.

Joelel · #6 03-21-2007, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kutless

I am confused as to what stndards you are talking about that are written in the word. Sorry.

Would you mind pointing me to that reference please.

Hi Kutless,yes we can start with this.

1 cor.15:33: Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

2Tim2:16: But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

1 Thes.5:22: Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Joelel · #7 03-21-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Yes, people believe they can live any life, and believe any lie, and be saved.

Its called rationalization, every man does what is right in his OWN eyes. That is why there is a de-emphasis on all things biblical, and a greater emphasis on how God makes you FEEL.

2 Thes.2:13: But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.We are saved by sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth. We are saved by the truth,Not a perverted gospel and lies like alot of people are preaching

Digging4Truth · #8 03-21-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joelel

[B][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Navy"]1 cor.15:33: Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

One at a time.

Paul was talking to people who were doubting that there had been a resurrection... They had been talking to people who had corrupted their doctrine and had caused them to doubt the very resurrection.

The bible is not a hand puppet that we can insert our will into and make it say whatever we want it to say.

Digging4Truth · #9 03-21-2007, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joelel

[B]2Tim2:16: But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Again.. godliness is undefined except by your held opinion... the "shun profane and vain babblings" portion of this scripture could go for ether side of the fence.

Joelel · #10 03-21-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Joelel,

The problem is the definition of holiness. God is holy. Jesus is God. There is not one scripture to support the definition of holiness as it applies to dress standards. The nature and character of God is what Christians should seek after but men have always wanted to prove their righteousness by comparing themselves to others instead. We cannot make ourselves holy by making more and more rules and laws to live by or the Old Testament Law would have been enough.

It is much too easy for people to get the concept of putting on Christ's righteousness through his imputed grace. They would rather bicker on forums trying to boast their greatness for all the holiness standards the profess to live by.

Blessings, Rhoni

Holiness is obeying the word.Rom.6
[19] I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity(Sin) unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
[22] But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life

2Cor.7
[1] Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God

Keep fruit in mind.

[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts