XUPCer Starting GAY Church in Bakersfield

[Weary Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

sigh...

To the poster who started this thread, once again I am amazed that you continue to call yourself a minister.

Do you realize that this man has family and friends who are having to deal with this, do you not have compassion on their suffering and embarrassment?

Why would you feel the need to throw this out for public consumption. Don't tell me it is because you want to invoke meaningful dialog because you did this in your usual manner; vomit and then leave.

You never try to inspire anything productive. This is not an indictment on those who have responded, some who have commented on this thread have done so in a productive manner.

I'm just disgusted.

Whoever the guy is that's starting this church put it on the World Wide Web. He made it public

[revrandy]

I think what is said is right...

if a person goes public with this type of information it becomes fodder for everybody else...

I think it certainly defines deception and spiritual blindness in one's life disguised as freedom but they are certainly bound by sin...

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

sigh...

To the poster who started this thread, once again I am amazed that you continue to call yourself a minister.

Do you realize that this man has family and friends who are having to deal with this, do you not have compassion on their suffering and embarrassment?

Why would you feel the need to throw this out for public consumption. Don't tell me it is because you want to invoke meaningful dialog because you did this in your usual manner; vomit and then leave.

You never try to inspire anything productive. This is not an indictment on those who have responded, some who have commented on this thread have done so in a productive manner.

I'm just disgusted.

Originally Posted by Weary Pilgrim

Whoever the guy is that's starting this church put it on the World Wide Web. He made it public

I have to agree.
Nobody embarrassed this "minister" and his family. He embarrassed himself.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

I looked at one of those awful websites and looked at the photos and one video and it really bothered me because IF the church of the living God is distinct, then why are these folks experiencing the same type of altar calls as I have experienced all my life.

Does it beg the question, is what we do in terms of the sweating and screaming and spiritual euphoria really legitimate?

This really bothers me and unfortunately I don't have an answer.

It would be better and easier frankly for the judgment of God to fall on these and destroy that which is blasphemous and fake...but then how many apostolic churches would go down the tubes with them?

Man, I hate this...

So you're rethinking what happens in legitimate pentecostal churches based on what you see happening in homosexual pentecostal "churches"?

Carp...you don't have to re-think the truth because of something you see in a church that's in error.

[Weary Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by George

Because cons try to hide their transgressions. They fear exposure because it would damage their pride in being conservative. Libs are "what you see is what you get." Libs don't need to hide. Why would the con pastor let a man remain in a district position knowing he had a homosexual affair? Can only be two reasons - 1. The pastor didn't want his church image to suffer or 2. The homosexual gave big financially and the pastor couldn't risk losing the money.

IMO, this is reality.

Although your response would be considered disrespectful by many in the ministry, I think it deserves a painfully honest look at what really may be going on in some of our circles (namely upc).
I'm not sure what the spirit and motive of George's response was, if you posted this with bitterness or malice intent, I would take exception with it. With that aside, and in all due respect to the conservative brethren with whom I may disagree with on some issues (however still hold in high regard),there is some validity to this. I see that I am not alone in wondering why this issue is swept under a rug and not dealt with in all truthfulness and honesty.
The Brutal fact is there has been a lot of hidden homosexuality even amongst conservatives that for whatever reason(cons)choose to pretend it's not a part of their reality even when it's right in their faces.
Again, I don't want this to be a bashfest. Just some honest soul searching.

[George]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

sigh...

To the poster who started this thread, once again I am amazed that you continue to call yourself a minister.

Do you realize that this man has family and friends who are having to deal with this, do you not have compassion on their suffering and embarrassment?

Why would you feel the need to throw this out for public consumption. Don't tell me it is because you want to invoke meaningful dialog because you did this in your usual manner; vomit and then leave.

You never try to inspire anything productive. This is not an indictment on those who have responded, some who have commented on this thread have done so in a productive manner.

I'm just disgusted.

I am not disgusted with MinisterWD but I am disgusted with the subject matter. It seems many Pentecostals are becoming more tolerant of alternative lifestyles and they are an abomination. However, in all fairness to MinisterWD, he did not make this public. The website and advertisement of the church itself is what made it public. I visited the website and the pastor looked familiar. I asked someone about him and found out he is divorced with children. Of course his family must be embarrassed, humiliated and feeling great stress to know he has his children every other weekend. It can't get more sad than that but I can't put the blame on MinisterWD for making this public. Sorry, Dizzy.

[jaxfam6]

"manifesting religious demons"

my momma always told me that it takes one to know one. So I would say that if someone is seeing "religious demons" manifested then probably they would be a "relgious demon" themselves.

Personally I agree with DD. This man has family who are, most likely, dealing with his problems. Yes he went on the internet and posted things and made it public but does someones public sin give us the right to continue to rehash it and make the embarassment any more great?

There has been an awful lot of things about homosexuality lately on here. One thing I have noticed in my life is that when someone is continually harping on a subject they most like are dealing with that particular problem themselves. I would hope and pray that is not the case. If it is I pray you get the help you need. I also pray that if you are that no one goes and makes you sins, public or private, open for all of us to discuss.


AND THE UPC BASHING?????? what is up with that? Do you feel so insecure and low yourself that you must attack good people? I am not UPCI but dear God in heaven, why would you make such blanket statments. Your experience with UPC certainly is not everyones.
GROW UP.

[Weary Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by jaxfam6

"manifesting religious demons"

my momma always told me that it takes one to know one. So I would say that if someone is seeing "religious demons" manifested then probably they would be a "relgious demon" themselves.

Personally I agree with DD. This man has family who are, most likely, dealing with his problems. Yes he went on the internet and posted things and made it public but does someones public sin give us the right to continue to rehash it and make the embarassment any more great?

There has been an awful lot of things about homosexuality lately on here. One thing I have noticed in my life is that when someone is continually harping on a subject they most like are dealing with that particular problem themselves. I would hope and pray that is not the case. If it is I pray you get the help you need. I also pray that if you are that no one goes and makes you sins, public or private, open for all of us to discuss.


AND THE UPC BASHING?????? what is up with that? Do you feel so insecure and low yourself that you must attack good people? I am not UPCI but dear God in heaven, why would you make such blanket statments. Your experience with UPC certainly is not everyones.
GROW UP.

Jax, who is trying to make this man's sins public? What was made public (by him) is a church that HE advertised on the WWW for all to view.

[George]

Originally Posted by Weary Pilgrim

Although your response would be considered disrespectful by many in the ministry, I think it deserves a painfully honest look at what really may be going on in some of our circles (namely upc).
I'm not sure of the spirit and motive of this George's response, if you posted this with bitterness or malice intent, I would take exception with it. With that aside, and in all due respect to the conservative brethren with whom I may disagree with on some issues (however still hold in high regard),there is some validity to this. I see that I am not alone in wondering why this issue is swept under a rug and not truthfully dealt with in all truthfulness and honesty.
The Brutal fact is there has been a lot of hidden homosexuality even amongst conservatives that for whatever reason(cons)choose to pretend it's not a part of their reality even when it's right in their faces.
Again, I don't want this to be a bashfest. Just some honest soul searching.

Please understand I have no "bitterness or malice." I have been around several con churches and feel strongly they tend to "hide" their sins more than lib churches. My pastor teaches us to be honest. Be real. If someone has a sin, they confess and the congregation prays for them. Sins are not hidden. This is just from my experiences that I draw this conclusion.

IMO, this new church is Bakersfield is probably being started out of bitterness and retaliation. If the gay man used to attend the very conservative church and feels like that church wronged him, he is probably very bitter and the bitterness has pushed him into being retalitory. If there are still other men in that church with whom he had affairs, he may believe he will get them to come "out-of-the-closet" and come to his church. Don't know, but it is worth considering. The bottom line is it is a very sad situation.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by IsolatedSaint

It's not so much that clean shaven in and of itself leads to homosexuality, but making rules that you can't serve in ministry capacity or be a member in good standing in certain churches unless your clean shaven, now that COULD, maybe, possibly open the door for homosexual, effeminate spirits to attack. That's were the danger lies.

Which pentecost you talking about?.....the men during the Azusa street revivals had beards!!!!

It could HOW? Where do you get such an idea that someone in that situation becomes a homosexual and has effeminate spirits attack? It sounds like you are making this stuff up as you go along.