Isaiah 3 and jewelry...

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by rdp

"Not with gold jewelry, pearls, or costly apparel." [NLT]. Sorry friend, denial is not evidence. I have all "the merit" in the world...it's called the Bible. You oughta' check it out sometime......

Well there you have it. Your just wasting my time. I can only understand your great wisdom when I'm spiritual like you. And all this time I thought the Emperor was really naked! DOH!

Our very point was that there is no textual proof to suggest Lucifer's jewels were a violation against God. It is said in a rather complimentarian way, including the description of musical abilities and glory. God creating man who LATER sinned is completely irrevelant. You're trying to stretch an Oprah-sized point onto a Leonardo DiCaprio body

Sorry Charlie, there certainly is textual proof that Lucifer's ornaments played a part in his fall...why else did the Holy Spirit take the time to enumerate them in describing his fall. Musical abilities are not condemned else where in the Bible as is Jewelry on God's people. Try again Jeffrey.....

[B]You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, turquoise and beryl. [c]
Your settings and mountings [d] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.

14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.

15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.

16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.

17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.

There is nowhere in this passage even a HINT or SUGGESTION that jewelry was "part of Lucifer's fall." Nor was this a description of his fall (portions do in later vv 17-19, which describes pride). Or perhaps your thinking of the description in Isaiah 14:12-15, which again describes his sin, but nothing in there about jewelry.

Ezekiel 28 was one of MANY scriptures were jewelry is spoken of positively.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by rdp

If my defense is weak, what kind of offense is appealing to Lucifer for your doctrinal support?????

I'll just assume that you cannot fill in the blank as to whether or not Lucifer was the temple of God...since you haven't done it in the last 4 pages!

Him being the temple of God as nothing to do with God adorned him with jewels.

BTW The new jerusalem(the church/temple) in rev was indeed deck with out with jewels. Also says it was like a bride adorned for her husband.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by rdp

Are you aware that the topic of this thread is jewelry...not ties?!?! And, for about the 15th time now, I'll asert [to no avail, no doubt] that I'm not a fan of extravagant clothing attire, as it violates the principle of outward holiness, as does ornamentation on God's temple.

Sheesh, you fella's just refuse to get it eh'.

Your obvously missing the point regarding ornaments can mean more then just jewelry, but can include clothing????

Do you attend a church where ties and colorful dresses are worn?

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Him being the temple of God as nothing to do with God adorned him with jewels.

BTW The new jerusalem(the church/temple) in rev was indeed deck with out with jewels. Also says it was like a bride adorned for her husband.

Reading this thread. I agree, the "temple of God" issue is irrelevant to what you guys are discussing. Somewhat of a distracting argument. Is he suggesting God loves jewels on angels that he created but not on humans that he created? And why he makes that argument is confusing, because he doesn't believe the jewels ol' Lucy had were even legitimate (he hasn't quite said God looked at them as sin though).

Further, the "temple of God' analogy is used by Paul to talk about sexual uncleanness, not fashion.

[Truthseeker]

Rev 21:2-3

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
KJV


The city is adorned as bride. "tabernacle of God is with men"




Rev 21:18-22

18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper : and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper ; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it
KJV


One decked out tabernacle/temple.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Reading this thread. I agree, the "temple of God" issue is irrelevant to what you guys are discussing. Somewhat of a distracting argument. Is he suggesting God loves jewels on angels that he created but not on humans that he created? And why he makes that argument is confusing, because he doesn't believe the jewels ol' Lucy had were even legitimate (he hasn't quite said God looked at them as sin though).

Further, the "temple of God' analogy is used by Paul to talk about sexual uncleanness, not fashion.

I think sometimes we are slow to recognize a point that goes against something we believe so strongly.

[Michael]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Well there you have it. Your just wasting my time. I can only understand your great wisdom when I'm spiritual like you. And all this time I thought the Emperor was really naked! DOH!



[B]You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, turquoise and beryl. [c]
Your settings and mountings [d] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.

14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.

15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.

16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.

17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.

There is nowhere in this passage even a HINT or SUGGESTION that jewelry was "part of Lucifer's fall." Nor was this a description of his fall (portions do in later vv 17-19, which describes pride). Or perhaps your thinking of the description in Isaiah 14:12-15, which again describes his sin, but nothing in there about jewelry.

Ezekiel 28 was one of MANY scriptures were jewelry is spoken of positively.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Your obvously missing the point regarding ornaments can mean more then just jewelry, but can include clothing????

Do you attend a church where ties and colorful dresses are worn?

Isn't a necktie considered to be a cloth necklace?
Wouldn't a decorative scarf around a woman's neck be the same thing?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Well there you have it. Your just wasting my time. I can only understand your great wisdom when I'm spiritual like you. And all this time I thought the Emperor was really naked! DOH!



[B]You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, turquoise and beryl. [c]
Your settings and mountings [d] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.

14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.

15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.

16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.

17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.

There is nowhere in this passage even a HINT or SUGGESTION that jewelry was "part of Lucifer's fall." Nor was this a description of his fall (portions do in later vv 17-19, which describes pride). Or perhaps your thinking of the description in Isaiah 14:12-15, which again describes his sin, but nothing in there about jewelry.

Ezekiel 28 was one of MANY scriptures were jewelry is spoken of positively.

No, the emperor is not naked, since the Bible says to be clothed in modest apparel! Let me guess, that doesn't mean what it says either right Jeffrey???

I contend that the jewelry is mentioned in connection w/ his fall. But, since you fella's want to appeal to Lucifer [which is ridiculous], does this mean that a child of God can be "covered in every precious stone," including the diamond, beryl, onyx, jasper, sapphire, etc.? So, can I justifiably get in the pulpit decked from head to toe in diamonds, nose rings, tongue rings, lip rings, earrings, w/ a $1000 suit & then teach people about modesty/godliness?

Jeffrey, you guys are ridiculous....repent & believe the Bible: "Not with braided hair, gold jewelry, pearls, or costly apparel [NLT, NIV, HCSB]. Man, can you guys not read??????

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Him being the temple of God as nothing to do with God adorned him with jewels.

BTW The new jerusalem(the church/temple) in rev was indeed deck with out with jewels. Also says it was like a bride adorned for her husband.

Little hint here: We're not in New Jeruslaem...we're His temple on earth! And every dwelling place of God on Earth has the metals INSIDE of God's dwelling...not OUTSIDE.....for about the 10th time now!?!?!?

By the way, hello Bruce & Don. How are those Mon. morning debate sessions going ???