The Office of Pastor - Page 7

Cindy · #61 01-13-2009, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaamez

I would agree with this statement as well, and I hope you understand that my purpose is not to be contentious, my dear sister. My purpose is just to encourage non-traditional thinking that is open to the notion that how things are setup TODAY may not be how the first century church was setup. I've heard sermon after sermon of preachers saying that we should be seeing the same results that the first century church did because WE ARE the Book of Acts church. Well, in doctrine we probably are - I sure hope so. But in organization... not so much. We are not just a contemporary clone of the first century; we can't expect the same results if we're not willing to look deeper into what they really did and how they really operated.

I'll admit that the current structure of the church is very comfortable to me. It's familiar to me and I like it...and that makes me happy. But God's blessing does not always equal his endorsement or pleasure with something. He's blessing the current structure, I believe, because there are sincere hearts that are diligently seeking Him. But how much more COULD He bless, or WOULD He bless, if we were truly operating in the structure of the five-fold ministry that they had in the first century.

I posted this in another topic, but the theme of it applies here as well. God still blessed the people with water from the rock when Moses disobeyed. But His blessing clearly was in spite of disobedience.

I don't think anything has stayed the same since the first century churches, why should this be any different?

Digging4Truth · #62 01-13-2009, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

I agree with you about the numbers. I don't even want to think about that.

So much I could say about this in particular, but perhaps I'd better not get started.

In regard to the five fold ministry, I believe that there are men more gifted in one ministry than another. It's pretty apparent that there are men especially gifted in the ministry of evangelism or in the prophetic or in teaching, etc. But it's also true that many pastors operate in many of these ministries. It's just the truth.

There are men who are 'evangelists' who can also teach and are prophets and who've been apostles as well although these may not be their main giftings. See what I'm saying?

Yes ma'am... I see... and agree.

I just wish that each church had several people gifted in each of these ministries working in the local congregation to further the spread of the gospel.

Felicity · #63 01-13-2009, 09:26 AM

I just don't understand the tension and angst about the 5 fold ministry. It's alive and well in the body of Christ.

Felicity · #64 01-13-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Yes ma'am... I see... and agree.

I just wish that each church had several people gifted in each of these ministries working in the local congregation to further the spread of the gospel.

Well, it's God who calls, anoints and gifts.

I believe that He has placed these ministries in the body overall. I see some of these giftings resident in local churches as well. Even our own.

iceniez · #65 01-13-2009, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

I just don't understand the tension and angst about the 5 fold ministry. It's alive and well in the body of Christ.

Jelousy,pure and simple one man thinks he is going to loose control.I'm sorry if it seems blunt ,just the way I see it.

Digging4Truth · #66 01-13-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

I just don't understand the tension and angst about the 5 fold ministry. It's alive and well in the body of Christ.

No angst or tension here. Just discussing the inequality of the use and application of the five equal ministries that God put into place.

Felicity · #67 01-13-2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

No angst or tension here. Just discussing the inequality of the use and application of the five equal ministries that God put into place.

My remark wasn't directed personally at you, D4T.

I'm glad for the five fold ministry and personally see it as being alive and well in the Church generally.

Felicity · #68 01-13-2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceniez

Jelousy,pure and simple one man thinks he is going to loose control.I'm sorry if it seems blunt ,just the way I see it.

Can you explain this a bit, please?

Digging4Truth · #69 01-13-2009, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

My remark wasn't directed personally at you, D4T.

I'm glad for the five fold ministry and personally see it as being alive and well in the Church generally.

No ma'am... and I didn't take it as such.

I was simply responding to your post. Often threads such as this one are felt to be driven by such emotions and I don't feel that this thread is motivated nor has operated in that vein...

I was simply stating that.

But on the alive and well....

If the ministries were alive and well as God intended don't you think we would see a higher level of success in the spreading of the gospel.

99.?% unreached...

That doesn't seem like the result of a system that is functioning as God would have it function. I would look for something more along the lines of "They turned their world upside down"

Digging4Truth · #70 01-13-2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceniez

Jelousy,pure and simple one man thinks he is going to loose control.I'm sorry if it seems blunt ,just the way I see it.

While each person is different I don't feel that jealousy is the motivating factor and I certainly wouldn't jump to that conclusion all willy nilly.

I feel that tradition is the big issue.

We have grown up with this model and so, per our natural human tendency, it "seems right".

This tradition that we have grown up with has weakened the use, application and effectiveness of 4/5's of the ministry God put into place.

Tradition is a very strong force