The Office of Pastor

Michael Phelps · #1 01-08-2009, 06:04 PM

I posted this on another thread, but wanted to start a new thread so as not to hijack Brother Eastman's thread.

A few posters made statements to the effect that saints are stupid, pastors can preach and teach whatever they want, and that in order to make it to heaven we have to obey the pastor.

I am not against pastors, in fact, I used to be one, but how did this single office of the five fold ministry gain such power and authority?

The Bible lists the five fold ministry as such:

Ephesians 4:11 (Whole Chapter)
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

In our Apostolic culture, we seem to have elevated the office of pastor to the highest level. We acknowledge evangelists, but THEY don't have this kind of power. We won't even acknowledge prophets and apostles, in most cases.

Is there scripture that supports this type of authority for pastors only?

How did this come about?

Digging4Truth · #2 01-08-2009, 06:12 PM

It came from the most powerful book of all....

The book of tradition.

Suggested Reading: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola.

EA · #3 01-08-2009, 06:13 PM

Think of it Michael, a pastor generally is around the saints at least twice a week, sometimes much more. Of course his word is going to carry a bit more weight than somebody that a saint sees once or twice in a lifetime.

I know this thought is very simple, but I think it is true nonetheless.

He's the guy that marries, buries, christens and teaches.

StillStanding · #4 01-08-2009, 06:18 PM

Modern day Pentecostal definition:

Apostle - The older preacher that is a mentor to other preachers. He's not called an apostle, because he is a pastor of an established church.

Prophet - The guy that the pastor has to reign in to keep order in the church. He may also be a pastor that is a visionary.

Evangelist - The guy who is on the preaching circuit learning the ropes before he becomes a pastor!

Pastor - The head honcho

Teacher - A member of the congregation responsible for Sunday School lessons.

Have you noticed in the above mentioned scripture that pastors and teachers are bundled together? They are a package deal, while the apostle, prophet and evangelist are separate from each other!

Digging4Truth · #5 01-08-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Think of it Michael, a pastor generally is around the saints at least twice a week, sometimes much more. Of course his word is going to carry a bit more weight than somebody that a saint sees once or twice in a lifetime.

I know this thought is very simple, but I think it is true nonetheless.

He's the guy that marries, buries, christens and teaches.

But why?

Why the pastor instead of the prophet?

Why doesn't each church have as many of the other 4 ministries as it does pastors?

Why is the pastor the full time position while most of the others are relegated to traveling temporary positions usually only practiced by those hoping to some day settle down and be a pastor?

The word seems to even insinuate that there were multiple people in the congregation that operated in the various ministries.

Michael Phelps · #6 01-08-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Think of it Michael, a pastor generally is around the saints at least twice a week, sometimes much more. Of course his word is going to carry a bit more weight than somebody that a saint sees once or twice in a lifetime.

I know this thought is very simple, but I think it is true nonetheless.

He's the guy that marries, buries, christens and teaches.

Good point, I appreciate the input.

But, I have to agree with DFT's post above - there really does seem to be an imbalance.

Again, I'm not against pastors, just curious as to what happened to the other ministries?

Digging4Truth · #7 01-08-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway

Modern day Pentecostal definition:

Apostle - The older preacher that is a mentor to other preachers. He's not called an apostle, because he is a pastor of an established church.

Prophet - The guy that the pastor has to reign in to keep order in the church. He may also be a pastor that is a visionary.

Evangelist - The guy who is on the preaching circuit learning the ropes before he becomes a pastor!

Pastor - The head honcho

Teacher - A member of the congregation responsible for Sunday School lessons.

Have you noticed in the above mentioned scripture that pastors and teachers are bundled together? They are a package deal, while the apostle, prophet and evangelist are separate from each other!

Yes sir... that is so...

But, in practice, one would never guess that in a million years.

2020Vision · #8 01-08-2009, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway

Modern day Pentecostal definition:

Apostle - The older preacher that is a mentor to other preachers. He's not called an apostle, because he is a pastor of and established church.

I know many young apostles who are mostly recognized as such in the mission field.

Prophet - The guy that the pastor has to reign in to keep order in the church. He may also be a pastor that is a visionary. I know many preachers who operate in the prophetic gift exclusively. Sometimes the pastor even operates in this gift.

Evangelist - The guy who is on the preaching circuit learning the ropes before he becomes a pastor!
Cheap shot! What does that say for the Greg Godwin's, Klindenst and Stonekings of the world.

Pastor- The head honcho
Yeah.. cake walk.
Teacher - A member of the congregation responsible for Sunday School lessons.
Nope. An elder in the church, sometimes the pastor, sometimes a visiting minister. Have you noticed in the above mentioned scripture that pastors and teachers are bundled together? They are a package deal, while the apostle, prophet and evangelist are separate from each other!

Do just a Google search on that and you'll see more on that.

StillStanding · #9 01-08-2009, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

Do just a Google search on that and you'll see more on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway
Modern day Pentecostal definition:

Apostle - The older preacher that is a mentor to other preachers. He's not called an apostle, because he is a pastor of and established church.

I know many young apostles who are mostly recognized as such in the mission field.

Who is the apostle for the USA? How about the state of Tennessee? Since the US and Canada are the origin for latter day Oneness Pentecostalism, do we not need an apostle? If so, is the "apostle" also a pastor?

Prophet - The guy that the pastor has to reign in to keep order in the church. He may also be a pastor that is a visionary.
I know many preachers who operate in the prophetic gift exclusively. Sometimes the pastor even operates in this gift.
I know very few who operate in the prophetic gifts who are not pastors! The ones that I know who are not pastors, are under submission to a pastor.

Evangelist - The guy who is on the preaching circuit learning the ropes before he becomes a pastor!

Cheap shot! What does that say for the Greg Godwin's, Klindenst and Stonekings of the world.

These men are but a few that are true evangelists. Billy Graham is the most famous of all! The fact is that most young preachers are encouraged to evangelize while they learn the art of pastoring. Many churches will not vote in a new pastor that hasn't first been a successful evangelist!

Pastor- The head honcho
Yeah.. cake walk.
The buck stops with the pastor, and you know it!

Teacher - A member of the congregation responsible for Sunday School lessons.
Nope. An elder in the church, sometimes the pastor, sometimes a visiting minister.
Maybe we can agree that the teacher in modern Pentecost is under the authority of the pastor. Anything that is taught must meet approval of the pastor!

Have you noticed in the above mentioned scripture that pastors and teachers are bundled together? They are a package deal, while the apostle, prophet and evangelist are separate from each other!

The pastor in modern Pentecost has control of who he chooses to call apostle, who he chooses to evangelize to his people (city), who he allows to prophecy, and who he allows to teach.

mizpeh · #10 01-08-2009, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway

Modern day Pentecostal definition:

Apostle - The older preacher that is a mentor to other preachers. He's not called an apostle, because he is a pastor of an established church.

Prophet - The guy that the pastor has to reign in to keep order in the church. He may also be a pastor that is a visionary.

Evangelist - The guy who is on the preaching circuit learning the ropes before he becomes a pastor!

Pastor - The head honcho

Teacher - A member of the congregation responsible for Sunday School lessons.

Have you noticed in the above mentioned scripture that pastors and teachers are bundled together? They are a package deal, while the apostle, prophet and evangelist are separate from each other!

The apostle Paul considered himself an apostle and teacher.