Thou shalt murder?

[NotforSale]

My wife and I were discussing the "God Said" issue this morning over coffee. We've been married 29 years, all of our life together going to Church.

The one thing without question between us is this; we’ve seen countless people (Pastors, Evangelists, Laity, Young, Old, and even ourselves) use the term loosely, "God told me".

The Mormons call this, "The burning in the bosom". We have called it a "Feeling" or”Unction", saying God is dealing with us by some inner dimension unseen by others.

Because of our many years together, we can Validate from Experience. If we are honest, we easily can SEE that this term is used to gain advantage or control of the hearer. How can someone question this? They can't, because what is "Said by God" is in your head. To give this term even more power, place the person behind a Pulpit or in Government, or give them a Title of Prophet.

In all the years of my service as a Christian, God has never spoken to me. I have felt things, and have heard words in my brain and conscience, but to say God told me, is something I stay away from because I can't be certain it is Him. If I tell someone that God told me, I am setting them up to believe I have some special insight or direct contact with God, and that what I say is what must be done. This is DANGEROUS! This is what has created a million Religions on Earth. Everybody thinks God is talking to them!

God gave us a conscience. He gave us a mind. We make the choice to kill or be killed. We make the choice to live moral, or to be immoral. And we are responsible to tell people the TRUTH.

Samuel telling Saul to do what he did to Amalek is the same thing as me telling someone "God told me".

If we will stop living in the past with Out of Sight, Out of Mind theology, and start Validating by Experience, our conclusions about life and God will be real, genuine, and honest.

People on this thread are having a hard time saying, "Yes, I would follow Saul’s army into this bloodbath", because they wouldn't do it. And yet, they say it was alright for THEM to do it........Just leave me out of it.

Christians live in dark fantasy because they won’t kill what they eat. Leave the bloodshed to someone else, because I can’t bear the screams, the terror, and the tears of suffering. We pass the buck, and won’t face the brutal truth.

The longer we live, the easier we see this.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Since it would be contrary to Jesus' teachings then God would never command it. So we have God changing from the Old Testament to the New Testament. In the Old Testament God would command such a thing for the greater good, in the New Testament God would not command such a thing ever. Did God's morals change because of what Jesus taught?

What exactly are you trying to prove or what point are you trying to get across? What's your bottom line? Just speak plainly so even I can understand where your are coming from and where you want to go.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Cindy

Have we forgotten Jim Jones & David Koresh? .....etc.

Cindy, I have not forgotten. Let’s not forget the Mormon women in the polygamists’ camps.

These women are brutally manipulated and brainwashed by "Prophets". If you have a moment, watch this brief clip. It’s gut wrenching to hear these women speak about their experience.

We just got done showing this whole film to the Church, and the tears were many…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNbXlo0z2kQ

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

My wife and I were discussing the "God Said" issue this morning over coffee. We've been married 29 years, all of our life together going to Church.

The one thing without question between us is this; we’ve seen countless people (Pastors, Evangelists, Laity, Young, Old, and even ourselves) use the term loosely, "God told me".

The Mormons call this, "The burning in the bosom". We have called it a "Feeling" or”Unction", saying God is dealing with us by some inner dimension unseen by others.

Because of our many years together, we can Validate from Experience. If we are honest, we easily can SEE that this term is used to gain advantage or control of the hearer. How can someone question this? They can't, because what is "Said by God" is in your head. To give this term even more power, place the person behind a Pulpit or in Government, or give them a Title of Prophet.

In all the years of my service as a Christian, God has never spoken to me. I have felt things, and have heard words in my brain and conscience, but to say God told me, is something I stay away from because I can't be certain it is Him. If I tell someone that God told me, I am setting them up to believe I have some special insight or direct contact with God, and that what I say is what must be done. This is DANGEROUS! This is what has created a million Religions on Earth. Everybody thinks God is talking to them!

God gave us a conscience. He gave us a mind. We make the choice to kill or be killed. We make the choice to live moral, or to be immoral. And we are responsible to tell people the TRUTH.

Samuel telling Saul to do what he did to Amalek is the same thing as me telling someone "God told me".

If we will stop living in the past with Out of Sight, Out of Mind theology, and start Validating by Experience, our conclusions about life and God will be real, genuine, and honest.

People on this thread are having a hard time saying, "Yes, I would follow Saul’s army into this bloodbath", because they wouldn't do it. And yet, they say it was alright for THEM to do it........Just leave me out of it.

Christians live in dark fantasy because they won’t kill what they eat. Leave the bloodshed to someone else, because I can’t bear the screams, the terror, and the tears of suffering. We pass the buck, and won’t face the brutal truth.

The longer we live, the easier we see this.

Sure folks "get feelings", and "feel unctions' but if those feeling and unctions are contrary to the Bible (our basis of what is right and wrong) then we can not go my those feelings.

As I posted similarly last night, I seriously doubt that any man on this forum, had they been in Saul's army, would have refused to do what was commanded. Especially since we would not have the benefit of the teaching of Jesus' at that time. We would have been living under a different culture. Wouldn't you be more inclined to kill all of your enemy and cut off future enemies by all meaning all, if that enemy had been killing yours for 400+ years?

By the way I have killed and prepared meat for my family. I understand what it is to put an end to life and have never done so gleefully or with a macho attitude.

But I still maintain that the New Testament church was not given any command to kill for the sake of the Gospel.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Sure folks "get feelings", and "feel unctions' but if those feeling and unctions are contrary to the Bible (our basis of what is right and wrong) then we can not go my those feelings.

As I posted similarly last night, I seriously doubt that any man on this forum, had they been in Saul's army, would have refused to do what was commanded. Especially since we would not have the benefit of the teaching of Jesus' at that time. We would have been living under a different culture. Wouldn't you be more inclined to kill all of your enemy and cut off future enemies by all meaning all, if that enemy had been killing yours for 400+ years?

By the way I have killed and prepared meat for my family. I understand what it is to put an end to life and have never done so gleefully or with a macho attitude.

But I still maintain that the New Testament church was not given any command to kill for the sake of the Gospel.

That's the million dollar question...What is contrary to the Bible??? Man can make the Bible say what they want it to say, and the Bible has become a source of great confusion in the World. And, which Religion do you give your allegiance to?? We could talk all day on the subject of Salvation, defining who's saved and who's lost, whether there is a Heaven or Hell, what Holiness is, what Grace is, what Faith is, what Church is RIGHT and what Church is WRONG.

Oh, but we will use the Bible to determine whether that voice inside of us is God!!

And, don't draw me into your conclusion about going into the bloodbath of Amalek. I wouldn't go, and I'm sure there were many of that day who questioned this horrible experience. These men went home to their wives, and discussed things like we do. They had emotions just like us, cried like us, and loved their children like us.

Watching the prophet Samuel chop this King into pieces in front of other men is troubling, no matter what time frame we are living in. This was a BRUTAL murder.

Why is it that you think people were so different back then? People are people. A human life has always been valuable and precious.

Killing is killing, and has always been killing. And as far as the Old Testament is concerned, one of the Ten Commandments states; Thou shalt NOT KILL.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Sure folks "get feelings", and "feel unctions' but if those feeling and unctions are contrary to the Bible (our basis of what is right and wrong) then we can not go my those feelings.

As I posted similarly last night, I seriously doubt that any man on this forum, had they been in Saul's army, would have refused to do what was commanded. Especially since we would not have the benefit of the teaching of Jesus' at that time. We would have been living under a different culture. Wouldn't you be more inclined to kill all of your enemy and cut off future enemies by all meaning all, if that enemy had been killing yours for 400+ years?

By the way I have killed and prepared meat for my family. I understand what it is to put an end to life and have never done so gleefully or with a macho attitude.

But I still maintain that the New Testament church was not given any command to kill for the sake of the Gospel.

The enemy is still there, and the killing has not stopped..........What did the genocide of Amalek accomplish? Revenge, the by product of killing.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Cindy, I have not forgotten. Let’s not forget the Mormon women in the polygamists’ camps.

These women are brutally manipulated and brainwashed by "Prophets". If you have a moment, watch this brief clip. It’s gut wrenching to hear these women speak about their experience.

We just got done showing this whole film to the Church, and the tears were many…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNbXlo0z2kQ

Thanks, NFS. Very eye opening.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Cindy

Thanks, NFS. Very eye opening.

You're welcome.

[SeekingOne]

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY

But you are willing to let someone else do it for you. If someone comes into your house to kill your wife and children would you just stand by smile.

Who said anything about smiling?

Do you believe God is big enough to stop someone from harming your family? Is he still God if he allows you or your family to be harmed?

Do you believe you have the "right" to take a life? Are we not to be preaching the gospel and loving our enemies?

Do you point the gun to the man or woman that desperately needs to know the love of God and tell them you are going to kill them in the love of God because he commanded you to "love" your enemy this way?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by SeekingOne

Who said anything about smiling?

Do you believe God is big enough to stop someone from harming your family? Is he still God if he allows you or your family to be harmed?

Do you believe you have the "right" to take a life? Are we not to be preaching the gospel and loving our enemies?

Do you point the gun to the man or woman that desperately needs to know the love of God and tell them you are going to kill them in the love of God because he commanded you to "love" your enemy this way?

Do you believe God is big enough to heal you of your sickness? If so who needs a doctor? The same principle applies to defense of your family. God can supernaturally intervene, however he also provided us with natural methods of defense.

Do you believe it is right to let your life be taken? Isn't that kind of like suicide? Do you believe it is right to let someone take anothers life? Doesn't doing nothing make you just as guilty as the killer?

Do you put down the gun and let the person that needs the love of God kill God's children in hopes that he may come to God? Do you not even consider all the other peoples lives that may have been touched by you and your families lives if you had saved them?