Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 12-17-2013, 01:02 AM
Praxeas's Avatar
Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,787
Re: Is There A Difference In?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord View Post
One question for you. Please show me a scripture in the Bible that equates holiness with clothing. Thanks.
Exo 28:2 And you shall make holy garments for Aaron your brother, for glory and for beauty.

Exo 29:21 Then you shall take part of the blood that is on the altar, and of the anointing oil, and sprinkle it on Aaron and his garments, and on his sons and his sons' garments with him. He and his garments shall be holy, and his sons and his sons' garments with him.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.

Last edited by Praxeas; 12-17-2013 at 01:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12-17-2013, 03:30 AM
votivesoul's Avatar
votivesoul votivesoul is offline
Administrator


 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 5,478
Re: Is There A Difference In?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Exo 28:2 And you shall make holy garments for Aaron your brother, for glory and for beauty.

Exo 29:21 Then you shall take part of the blood that is on the altar, and of the anointing oil, and sprinkle it on Aaron and his garments, and on his sons and his sons' garments with him. He and his garments shall be holy, and his sons and his sons' garments with him.
Good job, Prax.

I would add the following:

These holy garments, as commanded by God to be made, were, along with the other tabernacle/temple items, copies of what Moses saw in a vision regarding HEAVEN and the heavenly tabernacle.

If that doesn't preach to you, what will?

Secondly, here are some more Scriptures:

1 Timothy 2:9-10,

Quote:
9. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10. But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
Women ought to adorn themselves in modest clothing that isn't expensive, along with any jewelry that contains gold and/or pearls. Can a woman disobey this verse of Scripture and be okay with her Savior?

If you say yes, then a woman, and by extension, anyone, can disobey any Scripture they want without any negative effect upon their person and soul.

If you say no (as you rightly should) then if her relationship with her Savior is negatively affected through her disobedience, at what point does such a woman, for lack of a better term, on account of her disobedience, "lose" her holiness with God?

And for those who don't think a person's apparel has anything to do with his or her salvation, quit deceiving yourself.

If a woman, you just vamp it up, make sure you get a low cut shirt with a push-up bra, rock the cleavage, put on some pumps or attend a service dressed like Daisy Duke or Shakira and watch as every man looks at you walk in, and then feel the stares from behind as they can't help a second glance. Sit right in front of the pastor as he preaches so he can be nice and distracted and go up to the altar call, kneel down, so your butt is pulled tight and any passerby can see down your shirt, then ask yourself, is this the way a saved woman of God dresses?

You will be the biggest stumblingblock in the entire building, and cause many to offend, including your sisters, who resent your appearance because they caught their husbands' eyes wandering.

You can write them all off as perturbed perverts who can't control their lust, or you can rightly recognize your duty as your brother's keeper, and not shame the Lord with how you dress.

The same goes for men. You can GQ it up, wear that tight T-shirt that show off your abs, pecs, and biceps, allow a little bit of the old five o'clock shadow and some nice cologne and dazzle every woman in the audience with a brilliant smile, and I guarantee, some woman is going to swoon in her heart, especially if she's sitting next to Big Bob with his crooked tie, belly hanging over his belt, can't seem to comb his hair right husband who hasn't looked good in a suit since the day you married him.

Again, the same principle applies: stumblingblock, one that causes a dear sister in the Lord to lust and offend Christ.

But no, clothing has nothing to do with salvation. Nothing.

1 Peter 3:1-6,

Quote:
1. Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2. While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
3. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4. But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
5. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6. Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
Chaste conversation = sacred life style, one that demonstates inward and outward purity from the carnality of the world, from the Greek word hagnos, which stems from hagios, the common New Testament term for HOLY.

Adorning: to be arranged in a harmonious way

Apparel: clothing, especially the upper garments

Why not do this?

So as to win the disobedient husband to the Lord. That is, don't try to win him to the Lord by making yourself extra attractive or sexy on the outside through your clothing and jewelry, but rather win him because of what's in your heart: meekness and quietness of spirit.

If you will do this, ladies (should your husband not obey the Word), and NOT attempt the other (dressing and appearing in a "come hither" ready for the bedroom way), you will be a daughter of Sarah, and will become, as Peter here wrote, like a HOLY woman of old.

So you see, a lost husband's SALVATION can be dependent on how his wife dresses or doesn't dress versus how she acts and speaks from the heart.

Yeah, a lost husband might physically enjoy seeing his wife dress the part of the "I want you" vixen in the home, but doing that isn't going to save his soul, just turn up his sex drive.

People need to understand: modesty is not about you. It is about everyone else. You are free to be naked in private, in the shower, at home, in the bedroom and anywhere else where unwelcome eyes are *gasp* unwelcome.

But in public, you have a sacred duty to God and humanity to protect your brothers and sisters, both saved, and those yet to be saved, by not dressing in an offensive way.

If people could be honest and talk about how someone's appearance caused them to sin, we might actually start to believe and obey these otherwise seemingly un-palatable Scriptures.

I knew a guy who confessed the following to me:

There are times when I've prayed for grace. But there are other times when I've prayed for mercy.

Why? Because a newlywed pastor's wife almost always came to church dressed in such a way that for all intents and purposes, made her look smokin' hot.

Now, you can dismiss that as crude, ignorant, and sexist, or you can admit that some people have got it in the looks department and if they are not careful, accentuating their looks by dress and appearance makes it all the harder on everyone else.

This isn't about pants, beards, skirt length, eye shadow, or any of that.

It's about loving your neighbor as yourself, you know, the second greatest commandment in the entire Bible.

And if you don't believe me, next time you're in a service, look around and people watch. See who's eyes wander and where. See who can't make eye contact with a person of the opposite sex because their eyes aren't on the face. See if there are any teenage boys with a coat or bible spread across their lap.

Then, after your informal survey, remember to tell yourself:

Standards of outward appearance do matter! They ARE tied to holiness and salvation.
__________________
For anyone devoted to His fear:

http://votivesoul.wordpress.com/

Last edited by votivesoul; 12-17-2013 at 03:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12-17-2013, 07:47 AM
n david n david is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,807
Re: Is There A Difference In?

Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
The same goes for men. You can GQ it up, wear that tight T-shirt that show off your abs, pecs, and biceps, allow a little bit of the old five o'clock shadow and some nice cologne and dazzle every woman in the audience with a brilliant smile, and I guarantee, some woman is going to swoon in her heart, especially if she's sitting next to Big Bob with his crooked tie, belly hanging over his belt, can't seem to comb his hair right husband who hasn't looked good in a suit since the day you married him.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12-17-2013, 08:34 AM
TGBTG TGBTG is offline
Jesus is the only Lord God


 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,565
Re: Is There A Difference In?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TGBTG View Post
Just curious here. In the pictures posted in this thread, how are the guys dressed any differently from the men in the world? How can the world see those guys and know by their dressing that they are christians?

Or are holiness dress standards for women only?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Haha...


So is this guy dressed immodestly by American christianity or Japanese christianity?
__________________
...Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ...(Acts 20:21)
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-17-2013, 09:01 AM
KeptByTheWord's Avatar
KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
On the road less traveled


 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: On a mountain... somewhere
Posts: 8,369
Re: Is There A Difference In?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Exo 28:2 And you shall make holy garments for Aaron your brother, for glory and for beauty.

Exo 29:21 Then you shall take part of the blood that is on the altar, and of the anointing oil, and sprinkle it on Aaron and his garments, and on his sons and his sons' garments with him. He and his garments shall be holy, and his sons and his sons' garments with him.
Yes, I knew you'd have to dig in the OT to find this and I knew it was there... but really, being serious, where in OT or NT is "holiness" mentioned as a teaching equating holiness with clothing?

Paul does not mention the word holiness in Timothy, and Peter doesn't mention holy either when he is dealing with outward dress in his writings.

As others have said, it isn't holiness that is the issue, it is righteousness or modesty that is the more proper word for the teaching.

I was just making a point that all this "holiness clothing" talk comes with no basis in scripture. It would be more right to call it modesty teaching, than holiness.

But... they use the word holiness to somehow equate it with the nature of God, and therefore salvational... which is wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 12-17-2013, 09:03 AM
n david n david is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,807
Re: Is There A Difference In?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord View Post
Paul does not mention the word holiness in Timothy, and Peter doesn't mention holy either when he is dealing with outward dress in his writings.

As others have said, it isn't holiness that is the issue, it is righteousness or modesty that is the more proper word for the teaching.

I was just making a point that all this "holiness clothing" talk comes with no basis in scripture. It would be more right to call it modesty teaching, than holiness.

But... they use the word holiness to somehow equate it with the nature of God, and therefore salvational... which is wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 12-17-2013, 09:08 AM
KeptByTheWord's Avatar
KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
On the road less traveled


 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: On a mountain... somewhere
Posts: 8,369
Re: Is There A Difference In?

Votivesoul.... your thoughts are spot on. I have been in way too many churches where a sister's dress was so extravagant, and overdone, and her clothing, while a skirt, was so tight, and there was so much promiscuity involved in the attire, that it created a lot of attention for her, which she loved.

In one scenario in particular, the sister happened to be the pastor's wife, and she was on the platform too. It was a huge problem for the men, and the men in the church were constantly talking about it, because it was such a distraction for them. Unfortunately, even though some things were said to her about it, her husband ... the pastor... actually thought the rest of the men should have their wives look like his, and would do nothing about it. It was a circus.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 12-17-2013, 11:05 AM
KeptByTheWord's Avatar
KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
On the road less traveled


 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: On a mountain... somewhere
Posts: 8,369
Re: Is There A Difference In?

I find this scripture to be one of the most beautiful depictions of how the Lord would have us to be clothed.... but you will not find the OP "holiness" standards using this scripture for a basis for their "holiness" teaching...

Isaiah 61:10-11 "I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth, so the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before the nations."


1. God hath clothed with the garments of salvation
2. God hath covered with his robe of righteousness

HOW did He want to do this? Like a bridegroom decked out in his ornaments, and a bride with her jewels.

I think this is a beautiful allegory that God wanted us to see, that we can have adornments both inside and out (physically and spiritually) that complement each other, and don't detract from the beauty of the Lord.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 12-17-2013, 12:16 PM
navygoat1998's Avatar
navygoat1998 navygoat1998 is offline
Repent and believe the Gospel!


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 3,089
Re: Is There A Difference In?

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/...ike-porn-stars

When Christian Celebrities Dress Like Porn Stars - JENNIFER LECLAIRE

It seems the modesty debate continues to rage, as Erica Campbell, half of the gospel-hit duo Mary Mary, finds herself in the cross-hairs for a stark white, skin-tight dress.

It seems the modesty debate continues to rage, as Erica Campbell, half of the gospel-hit duo Mary Mary, finds herself in the cross-hairs for a stark white, skin-tight dress that shows off every curve of her shapely body. Campbell displays her fashion sense in a photo that is reportedly set to don the cover of her first solo album.

The Grammy-nominated Campbell is getting mixed reactions for her white-as-snow dress. According to Eurweb, one preacher put her on blast on Facebook, writing, “THIS IS NOT OKAY. Yes, you are a beautiful, curvy woman ... but NO MA’AM YOU ARE SINGING THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST. Saints ... smh COME ON.”

But not everyone is throwing stones at the gospel singer. Commenting on the photos posted at AmericanPreachers.com, Sherman Elms writes, “I think nothing is wrong with dress and I don’t think it changes her heart for our Lord and Savior, so every leader or woman of God that says this dress is inappropriate, go to your closet and throw out every piece of clothing that fits to your body because if you [women] our built like she is what really can you put on that’s going to over it up? If you don’t know her personally and only see her on TV like I do, I think she’s very great representation of a godly woman, don’t be mad because you can’t wear it.”

Interesting perspectives. So who’s right?

I’m not the fashion police, though my thoughts and views on modesty are well-outlined in the columns I mentioned above. Although I wouldn’t wear Campbell’s dress, it’s hardly as provocative as what I see some everyday women wear to church or what other female Christian celebrities are wearing in public. Campbell’s dress is not low cut—it’s actually a long-sleeved turtleneck, and the length is well below her knees! Yes, it’s tight all right—too tight for my taste—but it’s not especially distasteful.

Compare Campbell’s attire to Megan Good’s dress that made headlines this summer and you’d have to wonder why anyone is complaining about the Mary Mary singer. Good, an actress who played in Think Like a Man and married Seventh-day Adventist preacher DeVon Franklin, showed up at the 2013 BET Awards in June wearing more than a tight dress or showing a little cleavage. The front of her dress was cut so low that her breasts were not only visible—they were in your face. Highly inappropriate? Yes. But she didn't think so.

“Regardless of what anybody thinks," Good said in response to the criticism, "I have a personal relationship with God. We talk, and we speak, and I don’t feel convicted about it, and so I have to do what’s in my heart, and I can’t allow people to manipulate my direction.”

So, again, who’s right? Where do we draw the line? Is it OK for a Christian woman to let her breasts hang out because she doesn't feel convicted by it? Is it OK to wear a dress that’s so tight it looks painted on? If God gave it to you, should you flaunt it for His glory? Should we ignore how our wardrobe may offend or tempt others? Don’t Christian mothers teach their daughters how to dress anymore? Or is this generation so rebellious that sex-charged clothing is merely another sign of the times?
__________________
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)

Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 12-17-2013, 12:26 PM
Miss Scarlett Miss Scarlett is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: 150 miles north of the Mississiippi coast
Posts: 495
Re: Is There A Difference In?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PastorTLArt View Post
And who determines what modest is? Just because we see someone dressed in a way we consider immodest are they really?
This question has got to be a joke.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What's the difference? mizpeh Fellowship Hall 213 07-28-2018 10:52 AM
Is There A Difference? easter Deep Waters 26 06-17-2010 10:40 AM
What a difference Esther Fellowship Hall 0 12-11-2007 02:20 PM
What is the difference marthaolivia Fellowship Hall 1 09-21-2007 04:50 PM
What is the Difference??? Jekyll Fellowship Hall 11 03-12-2007 07:33 AM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome
- by Salome

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.