The REAL Reason CONS have left or rarely post

[AmazingGrace]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I thought they voted you as their voice!

Uh ummm uh,,,,, No! LOL

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Okay, here goes.

I have been ever evolving since about the mid-nineties. AFF is not the cause of the evolution. I have evolved because there are just some things I cannot find in scripture.

It all started when my best friend and I started having a Bible study in my living room back in 1993. It was the summer after I graduated from Gateway. We searched everything. We came away enlightened and, at the same time, disappointed.

Disappointed because we had been sold a bill of goods that just wasn't true. We came away with the firm belief that our core doctrine was as solid as a rock, and we hold to that same doctrine today. I have never believed there is any other proper response to the gospel than Acts 2:38.

However, I have changed my mind on many issues that I consider non-essential. My mind was changed before I ever typed my first post on AFF.

Now, as to Daniel.

I believe Daniel is one of the most intelligent men I have ever met, in any setting. I believe this because of my interaction with him on and off of this forum. I also believe Daniel has an agenda. His agenda is to hybridize Oneness and Trinitarian believers. His agenda is to minimize the necessity of water baptism in Jesus Name. His agenda is to tear down some history.

Saying all of that does not mean I do not love and respect him dearly, because I do. I just disagree vehemently with his theology and tactics.

The first half of your post is exactly what I'm saying. You are questioning things on your own already.

The second half - - I believe Daniel didn't "set out" to have a agenda. Daniel LOVES to debate, LOVES to try and make others think, LOVES to challenge.

Is that wrong? Nope. Just because he loves to do that does that make him have an agenda? I don't think so.....I think it's just the way Daniel is wired. Maybe I'm wrong - - I just don't see it being his life long dream to seek to change people's minds about what they believe.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Mark, Many have an agenda, not just the liberal posters on this forum. I think the ultra/conservatives left because they are like so many, when things don't go their way they just upset the table, and leave instead of stay and hold their position.

It is my opinion that they left because when questioned about many things they could not give a scriptural, logical, or educated answer...they instead attached the person/character of those who opposed their opinion.

Like Pianoman, and many who come into counseling...they do not want you to advise them or give them your opinion they just want to be heard, and feel free to express deep seated confusion, fears, and even look at what they believe from alternate perspectives.

Many of us feel isolated and alone in what we consider to be injustices, or unscriptural stands on things that we have battled with through the years. The forums are, to some extent, a support group where we find that we are not alone in our struggles.

I do agree with many that the truth will stand under the most intense scrutiny. I don't know about you, but I want truth. If I have to crawl through broken glass on my knees to make it to heaven I will, but if there is another way that makes a person feel forgiven, their past sins, weights, and mistakes forgiven, and a hope in this life as well as beyond then let's sit down and discuss the word and stop trying to shame, blame, and cast stones...there is enough bad stuff to overcome in this world without people of the faith community killing each other physically, spiritually, or emotionally.

I am tired of the emotional blackmail that says, "Play by my rules, and believe like I believe or I will ostrasize you, make you a display of open shame, or I'll bring you down". I have had 40+ years of that and I say.."No more". If that is your way...I don't want your way and I'll run from everything you stand for.

You wanted to know my opinion...there you have it!

Originally Posted by StMark

remember I'm a nobody cuz I'm just a musician
I don't have that coveted title that would allow me
special previleges like joining the special forums that
are a cut above AFF. when that happens I might start
doing my part

Originally Posted by MikeinAR

If some of you like monkeyman are saying you know people who have changed because of something discussed or posted on this forum then I believe you. I do agree with Renda though that those people were probably searching out their own salvation and belief systems before hand. I find it hard to believe that solely based on an internet forum, those folks decided to change. Afterall, had they been solid in their own beliefs they would have skidattled like the other ultra cons your referencing.

I've worked out my own salvation to the point that when some heresy like magic hair, or serpent seed is propogated, I don't even sniff at it. Now I guess, there are some who can be swayed and maybe even converted to those lines of thinking. Would AFF be repsonsible for someone not being sure of their own personal beliefs??

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I will state for the umpteenth time - - Daniel didn't influence people out of the clear blue. The people that Daniel influenced were searching, questioning already. You guys act like he has some magical power over people.

PP, I've seen you change in the time that I've known you. What do you attribute that to?

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Renda, you're a great gal, but this statement is baloney.

I love Daniel, but he has influenced many, many readers to walk away from some things I hold dear.

MOW, Daniel and Timlan have repeatedly stated that they post here to influence others.

Originally Posted by StMark

now this is where I would love for those with an opposing
view to step and debate because THEY believe he
PURPOSELY sought out to persaude people against their
UPC beliefs

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Wanting to be influenced or to see outside the circle - get answers for the inconsistencies?

There have been very few people on this forum who have changed their minds about anything...and that is what is sad. Change is growth. If you stay the same then you will stagnate.

[Nahum]

I will make a very bold statement to those who laugh off the influence of AFF,

I believe AFF is THE most powerful voice in Oneness Pentecostalism today. It's readership far outnumbers any other publication in Oneness Pentecostalism.

I know of very, very few preachers that have never heard of it, or don't lurk.

I get asked about my posts all of the time.

Ministers from those other forums know every single topic of discussion here.

My friends, as I tell Daniel often, This is El Dorado.

[AmericanAngel]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Mark, Many have an agenda, not just the liberal posters on this forum. I think the ultra/conservatives left because they are like so many, when things don't go their way they just upset the table, and leave instead of stay and hold their position.

It is my opinion that they left because when questioned about many things they could not give a scriptural, logical, or educated answer...they instead attached the person/character of those who opposed their opinion.

Like Pianoman, and many who come into counseling...they do not want you to advise them or give them your opinion they just want to be heard, and feel free to express deep seated confusion, fears, and even look at what they believe from alternate perspectives.

Many of us feel isolated and alone in what we consider to be injustices, or unscriptural stands on things that we have battled with through the years. The forums are, to some extent, a support group where we find that we are not alone in our struggles.

I do agree with many that the truth will stand under the most intense scrutiny. I don't know about you, but I want truth. If I have to crawl through broken glass on my knees to make it to heaven I will, but if there is another way that makes a person feel forgiven, their past sins, weights, and mistakes forgiven, and a hope in this life as well as beyond then let's sit down and discuss the word and stop trying to shame, blame, and cast stones...there is enough bad stuff to overcome in this world without people of the faith community killing each other physically, spiritually, or emotionally.

I am tired of the emotional blackmail that says, "Play by my rules, and believe like I believe or I will ostrasize you, make you a display of open shame, or I'll bring you down". I have had 40+ years of that and I say.."No more". If that is your way...I don't want your way and I'll run from everything you stand for.

You wanted to know my opinion...there you have it!

WOW!!

AMEN!!

Amen x 100!!

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

There have been very few people on this forum who have changed their minds about anything...and that is what is sad. Change is growth. If you stay the same then you will stagnate.

I seriously doubt this.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by StMark

i want every ultra con to see what you have allowed to happen!!!

Is that such a bad thing?????

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

The first half of your post is exactly what I'm saying. You are questioning things on your own already.

The second half - - I believe Daniel didn't "set out" to have a agenda. Daniel LOVES to debate, LOVES to try and make others think, LOVES to challenge.

Is that wrong? Nope. Just because he loves to do that does that make him have an agenda? I don't think so.....I think it's just the way Daniel is wired. Maybe I'm wrong - - I just don't see it being his life long dream to seek to change people's minds about what they believe.

I agree. I have met Daniel and he is a humble person who loves God and people with all his heart...he just wants people to think about what they believe and be able to defend it.

Bless you Daniel.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

I will make a very bold statement to those who laugh off the influence of AFF,

I believe AFF is THE most powerful voice in Oneness Pentecostalism today. It's readership far outnumbers any other publication in Oneness Pentecostalism.

I know of very, very few preachers that have never heard of it, or don't lurk.

I get asked about my posts all of the time.

Ministers from those other forums know every single topic of discussion here.

My friends, as I tell Daniel often, This is El Dorado.

I will agree that it's well known - it is read even by those at WEC.

However, I don't think it would be considered a powerful voice as in influence or decision making. It's just a vehicle of discussion that MANY read.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

The first half of your post is exactly what I'm saying. You are questioning things on your own already.

The second half - - I believe Daniel didn't "set out" to have a agenda. Daniel LOVES to debate, LOVES to try and make others think, LOVES to challenge.

Is that wrong? Nope. Just because he loves to do that does that make him have an agenda? I don't think so.....I think it's just the way Daniel is wired. Maybe I'm wrong - - I just don't see it being his life long dream to seek to change people's minds about what they believe.

You have every right to be wrong.

Renda, he posts here to change minds.

Period.

Take the blinders off, Sis.

And don't get me wrong, I believe he has every right to post whatever falls within your rules.