Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
Prax, it is very clear, I learned that stuff in JR high.(I misspoke when I said.."you say it is masculine", I meant it as fact that it is masculine) I was sincere about the John 1:1 post #307. I really have never had a discussion with any oneness minister on exactly what "the word" is referring to. Folks just generally quote it, then more scriptures, then say..."there ya go". I think you are known as a "go to" guy here, so that is why I wanted your opinion. Thanks. (I sure dont want to ask the opinion from a preterist, I will end up with a bunch of types and anti-types...LOL)
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Well the usual Oneness reply is to interpret the word Logos in It's Greek usage to refer to a Plan or Idea in the mind of a play write.
Other uses was to see Logos as referring not to just a word but the thought behind that word as the expression of the Person himself
And also the word Logos can refer to the faculty of reason.
However I believe all these miss the point. John was a Palestinian Jew. He grew up going to Israeli schools and hearing the Torah read in Aramaic.
He would have been familiar then with Rabbinical teachings and Aramaic words and practices
One such practice was never to say the name of God (Yhwh), but to replace the name with other words (called Circumlocitions)
They would say "HaShem" or write "Adonai". In Rabbinical literature and paraphrases rather than write "Yhwh said Let there be light", they would use the word Memra instead of "Yhwh said" as a circumlocution.
When Greek speaking Jews or when Jews wanted to convey that same idea in Greek they used Logos.
This Memra theme overlapped with their personification of Wisdom as well as the idea of God dwelling (Shekina, glory, Light)
So in
Jn 1, John is referring to the beginning of Creation where God spoke all things into being. the Logos is the Greek equivalent of Memra because this gospel was being written in Greek
In Judaism they saw God in a Tripart way. He was 1 "Person" but existed as God (transcendent), revealed by speaking (See
Gen 3) and by sometimes the visible glory cloud dwelling with men.
In Jn we see the Logos and the various rabbinical themes of Light (Light is used sometimes for the Glory)
We see a sort of "Personification" of the Logos being "with" God
Further down we see a reference to the Shekina where "And the Logos was made flesh and DWELT among us"
Shekina comes from a Hebrew word meaning "dwelling" and is used often and translated as Taberrnacle.
The Greek word here for "Dwelt" can mean "tabernacled" and infact the word looks similar to the Hebrew word for "dwelling"
Once you realize that and that Jews wrote most of the bible or Gentiles influenced by Judaism, you can see these themes all over the place
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God.
Joh 1:2 The Word was with God in the beginning.
Joh 1:3 All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created.
Joh 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of mankind.
Joh 1:14 Now the Word became flesh and
took up residence among us. We saw his
glory — the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father.
Notice the word Glory.
Joh 14:17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot accept, because it does not see him or know him. But you know him, because he resides with you and will be in you.
The Memra refers to God speaking creatively in the beginning. This message both defines for the Greeks and the Jews that Jesus is God Himself and how.
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