Born at faith?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Adino

Thanks to all who have voted thus far.

I'll define the term "converts to faith" here as I did in the other poll:

I mean is a man born of the Spirit the moment his heart converts from unbelief to belief (faith) in Christ?

At the conversion of the heart to Christ. The moment the heart is awakened to an acceptance of Christ. At this moment is the heart born of the Spirit?

Hope this helped, if not, please feel free to ask for further clarification.

Pelathais, I hear you, Bro.

The answer is still no. Thank you for the definition.

Although I will agree that the "conversion from unbelief to belief" is a work of the Spirit in drawing that person to Christ but not the new birth. I would also say that this conversion is not different than repentance...a change of mind. How would you distinguish the two? I don't find any difference.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by drummerboy_dave

Pelathais, I'm not sure I understand the tone of your oratory, but it seems disturbing to me and sadly overdramatic. But then, you're probably just trying to live up to your sig line.

No man will ever be able to define God. Those who think they can are fooling themselves.

Good thoughts.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Shirley, you jest. Mizpeh, however has other concerns. So while I am happy that I was able to help Shirley, I am saddened that I missed the mark with Mizpeh.

The post was a generalization. I don't think it was judgmental, however. I didn't say that the group painted by my large brush had "lost out with God" or was headed for damnation. Ironically, those under the brush would not hesitate to send me to hell for my facial hair and the waxed tip shoe laces in my wingtips. I guess that's why I don't see the "condescension" in my post either.

The only "proof" I offer is the resonance that others find with what I said. If someone doesn't find the same resonance there is no need to assume I was intending to paint them. Sometimes we just come away from a lifetime of experience with different impressions.

I'm in the "water and Spirit" camp but I wouldn't condemn you for facial hair or fancy shoe laces. I see your post as you doing what you despise others doing to you. I've spent a lot of time studying 'the Bible' to see if what I've been taught is true, not just once or twice. You've painted all 'water and Spirit' believers as ignorant judgemental bigots. That's why you're getting this reaction from me.

[Adino]

Mizpeh, may I ask what your answer to the first poll was?

It asked:

Do you believe a man has eternal life the moment his heart converts to faith?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Adino

Mizpeh, may I ask what your answer to the first poll was?

It asked:

Do you believe a man has eternal life the moment his heart converts to faith?

I didn't read a thread that had a poll with that question.

If 'converts to faith' means the moment a person goes from unbelief to belief in Christ then no, I don't believe that at that moment a man has eternal life.

[meBNme]

Originally Posted by Adino

Thanks to all who have voted thus far.

I'll define the term "converts to faith" here as I did in the other poll:

I mean is a man born of the Spirit the moment his heart converts from unbelief to belief (faith) in Christ?

At the conversion of the heart to Christ. The moment the heart is awakened to an acceptance of Christ. At this moment is the heart born of the Spirit?

Hope this helped, if not, please feel free to ask for further clarification.

Pelathais, I hear you, Bro.

I voted NO to both of em.
You can believe till yer blue in the face, but you aint got it(the gift), till you got it And if you aint got it, how are you gonna enter heaven ifn ya aint been born agin? Have you recieved the power since you BELIEVED!?
That indicates that they believed, but didnt yet have it. So n ow its different because...... well, why again?

[Michael The Disciple]

There is a process in being born of God. Peter spelled it out nicely in the first sermon preached to sinners in the New Testament Church. The crowd asked "what shall we do".

They wanted to know how to get right.

Peter and the Apostles walked with Yeshua during his earthly ministry. Then after the resurrection he appeared to them 40 days teaching the kingdom message.

The Apostles were never any more in the will of God than they were that day! They told the seekers of salvation:

Repent and be baptized in the name of Yeshua the Messiah for remission of sins and you shall receive the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

Theres no way they were wrong.

Why did they not say "you must be born again".

They did not need to since their answer EXPLAINED HOW TO BE BORN AGAIN. In saying what they DID they were telling the seekers HOW TO BE BORN AGAIN.

No one is not born again just when they accept Yeshua. Although all the rest comes forth FROM THAT FAITH.

[meBNme]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Shirley, you jest. Mizpeh, however has other concerns. So while I am happy that I was able to help Shirley, I am saddened that I missed the mark with Mizpeh.

The post was a generalization. I don't think it was judgmental, however. I didn't say that the group painted by my large brush had "lost out with God" or was headed for damnation. Ironically, those under the brush would not hesitate to send me to hell for my facial hair and the waxed tip shoe laces in my wingtips. I guess that's why I don't see the "condescension" in my post either.

The only "proof" I offer is the resonance that others find with what I said. If someone doesn't find the same resonance there is no need to assume I was intending to paint them. Sometimes we just come away from a lifetime of experience with different impressions.

I dont know how Shirley got all involved in this, but she needs to take her curlers out and put something on besides that bathrobe.

Your post was certainly a broad brush, steriotyping, and inacurate because of it.
I reckon because I am a "Born of the water and of the spirit" type I fit under your brush here. But dude! seriosly, quit eatin bitter pie! I'm guessing your wingtips are no more sinfull and damning to hell than my creme colored stacy adams' with gold colored buckle. And if you want your face just as hairy as your armpit, go right ahead man, grow it till it doubles as a tie. I'm not aware of a scripture that says that makes you hellbound. Hey, if you watch TV and go to ball games, big deal. Just because I dont share the same personal standard prefferances as you does not mean I fit your steriotype of some hard nosed "yer goin ta burn in hayull faar!!!!" type.

So yeah, I agree that your post was doing some of the same stuff you speak out against others in your steriotype for doing.

You know what? Even if you voted for Hitlary Rotten Clinton I wouldnt say you were a hellbound unbeliever. .......I may say you lost yer everluvin MIND, but thats a different thing.

[meBNme]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Repent and be baptized in the name of Yeshua the Messiah for remission of sins and you shall receive the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

Hey, is there a Bible version that reads like that? if so, what is it?
I think that is more accurate a translation than "....in the name of Jesus Christ for the remmision......."

I'm interested in comparing other scriptures to the KJV.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by meBNme

I dont know how Shirley got all involved in this, but she needs to take her curlers out and put something on besides that bathrobe.

Shirley sounds like surely. Pelathais was rehashing an old, old joke.