Born at faith?

[Adino]

In answer to the "Possessed at Conversion?" poll:

Do you believe a man has eternal life the moment his heart converts to faith?

Of 21 voters we saw about 57% YES and about 43% NO

I have a follow up question:

Do you believe a man is born of the Spirit the moment his heart converts to faith?

[pelathais]

I think you may find some frustration with this, Adino. There is the Water and Spirit mindset that is so ingrained in this current generation of Apostolics that many will either be puzzled by your question or feel threatened by it.

In trying to understand the theology of today's average "Apostolic" believer your really must accept the fact that there is very little theology involved. The idea of having to iron out all of the wrinkles to make a coherent theological system is completely alien to our movement. Whenever you run into an obvious contradiction in your doctrine(s) most OPs' will simply shrug their shoulders and mutter something about how great God is, and how His understanding is so far above our understanding. Then you learn to simply avoid that whole area of discussion.

For over 2,000 years, generations of Christians have been forced to go back to their Bible to discover and rediscover truth for themselves. When they ran into problems of inconsistency they would redouble their efforts to get at the heart of the underlying issue.

Today's "Apostolics" however, are taught to believe that they automatically possess the epitome of all revealed truth in Jesus name baptism, Holy Ghost speaking in other tongues and the Oneness of God. Any attempt to try and reconcile any of the obvious contradictions in that formula will mean that "you're not Apostolic..." and will cause others to say things like, "Well if you want to go charismatic why don't you dump your wife and go all the way...???"

And then, ironically several years later you will hear that those people dumped their wives and got a truck driving job.

[JaneEyre]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I think you may find some frustration with this, Adino. There is the Water and Spirit mindset that is so ingrained in this current generation of Apostolics that many will either be puzzled by your question or feel threatened by it.

In trying to understand the theology of today's average "Apostolic" believer your really must accept the fact that there is very little theology involved. The idea of having to iron out all of the wrinkles to make a coherent theological system is completely alien to our movement. Whenever you run into an obvious contradiction in your doctrine(s) most OPs' will simply shrug their shoulders and mutter something about how great God is, and how His understanding is so far above our understanding. Then you learn to simply avoid that whole area of discussion.

For over 2,000 years, generations of Christians have been forced to go back to their Bible to discover and rediscover truth for themselves. When they ran into problems of inconsistency they would redouble their efforts to get at the heart of the underlying issue.

Today's "Apostolics" however, are taught to believe that they automatically posses the epitome of all revealed truth in Jesus name baptism, Holy Ghost speaking in other tongues and the Oneness of God. Any attempt to try and reconcille any of the obvious contradictions in that formula will mean that "you're not Apostolic..." and will cause others to say things like, "Well if you want to go charismatic why don't you dump your wife and go all the way...???"

And then, ironically several years later you will hear that those people dumped their wives and got a truck driving job.

Is this a small world? Do you and I know some of the same people? Or is this phenomenon more widespread than I imagined?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by JaneEyre

[/b]

Is this a small world? Do you and I know some of the same people? Or is this phenomenon more widespread than I imagined?

It may be that our paths have crossed, or that we've crossed many of the same people. Or that many of the same people have crossed us?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Adino

In answer to the "Possessed at Conversion?" poll:

Do you believe a man has eternal life the moment his heart converts to faith?

Of 21 voters we saw about 57% YES and about 43% NO

I have a follow up question:

Do you believe a man is born of the Spirit the moment his heart converts to faith?

What do you mean by "converts to faith"?

My problem is there are a lot of terms tossed out and it seems half the time nobody is defining them and the rest of the time they are all being equivocated.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I think you may find some frustration with this, Adino. There is the Water and Spirit mindset that is so ingrained in this current generation of Apostolics that many will either be puzzled by your question or feel threatened by it.

In trying to understand the theology of today's average "Apostolic" believer your really must accept the fact that there is very little theology involved. The idea of having to iron out all of the wrinkles to make a coherent theological system is completely alien to our movement. Whenever you run into an obvious contradiction in your doctrine(s) most OPs' will simply shrug their shoulders and mutter something about how great God is, and how His understanding is so far above our understanding. Then you learn to simply avoid that whole area of discussion.

For over 2,000 years, generations of Christians have been forced to go back to their Bible to discover and rediscover truth for themselves. When they ran into problems of inconsistency they would redouble their efforts to get at the heart of the underlying issue.

Today's "Apostolics" however, are taught to believe that they automatically possess the epitome of all revealed truth in Jesus name baptism, Holy Ghost speaking in other tongues and the Oneness of God. Any attempt to try and reconcile any of the obvious contradictions in that formula will mean that "you're not Apostolic..." and will cause others to say things like, "Well if you want to go charismatic why don't you dump your wife and go all the way...???"

And then, ironically several years later you will hear that those people dumped their wives and got a truck driving job.

Most of the time I enjoy your posts. This one sucks!

It's full of generalization's and judgemental garbage.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

What do you mean by "converts to faith"?

I was going to ask the same question.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Adino

Do you believe a man is born of the Spirit the moment his heart converts to faith?

No. You're born of the Spirit when you have been baptized or filled with the Spirit similar to the disciples in Acts 2.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I think you may find some frustration with this, Adino. There is the Water and Spirit mindset that is so ingrained in this current generation of Apostolics that many will either be puzzled by your question or feel threatened by it.

In trying to understand the theology of today's average "Apostolic" believer your really must accept the fact that there is very little theology involved. The idea of having to iron out all of the wrinkles to make a coherent theological system is completely alien to our movement. Whenever you run into an obvious contradiction in your doctrine(s) most OPs' will simply shrug their shoulders and mutter something about how great God is, and how His understanding is so far above our understanding. Then you learn to simply avoid that whole area of discussion.

For over 2,000 years, generations of Christians have been forced to go back to their Bible to discover and rediscover truth for themselves. When they ran into problems of inconsistency they would redouble their efforts to get at the heart of the underlying issue.

Today's "Apostolics" however, are taught to believe that they automatically possess the epitome of all revealed truth in Jesus name baptism, Holy Ghost speaking in other tongues and the Oneness of God. Any attempt to try and reconcile any of the obvious contradictions in that formula will mean that "you're not Apostolic..." and will cause others to say things like, "Well if you want to go charismatic why don't you dump your wife and go all the way...???"

And then, ironically several years later you will hear that those people dumped their wives and got a truck driving job.

Great post

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Most of the time I enjoy your posts. This one sucks!

It's full of generalization's and judgemental garbage.

Surely you jest!?!?!?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Surely you jest!?!?!?

It's full of condescension without presenting any proof or "theology" to back up what he says. I'm not jesting.