The "Hit and Miss" Doctrine - Page 3

chaotic_resolve · #21 07-07-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

So you are building you beliefs on what is NOT written in scripture than what IS written. If they had missed it, what does the old testament say would be the result of a Prophet that missed it??

No. I was just putting the question out there if we thought that everything was recorded or not. But no sir, my beliefs are what's written in the word of God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I think you are now comparing the gift prophecy to the word of a Prophet. To me, they are 2 different things. Prophecy can fail. We do have a choice when it comes to prophecy to follow after God, and see it come to pass. But a Prophet speaks for God. He is Gods mouthpiece to the church. IF he misses, it is because he is speaking words other than Gods. This disqualifies him from being trusted as a Prophet.

I have little faith in any minister that will say thus saith the Lord when it is not God speaking.

You could be right on that. So then, are there any true Prophets alive today? Or are there just ministers who have the gift of Prophecy? Based on your reply, I'd have to say there are no true Prophets alive today and the one's we esteem as Prophets are merely working in the gift of Prophecy.

stmatthew · #22 07-07-2007, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve

No. I was just putting the question out there if we thought that everything was recorded or not. But no sir, my beliefs are what's written in the word of God.

You could be right on that. So then, are there any true Prophets alive today? Or are there just ministers who have the gift of Prophecy? Based on your reply, I'd have to say there are no true Prophets alive today and the one's we esteem as Prophets are merely working in the gift of Prophecy.

Honestly, I do not think there are many that literally stand in the office of Prophet. Some may be called to it, but only work in the gift only at present. This is only my opinion, so don't crucify me over it.

Trouvere · #23 07-07-2007, 06:03 PM

I doubt that he is very celebrated but Brother Gordon Winslow is used alot in the Holy Ghost in prophecy.He has never missed in praying for us.Brother Charles Pierce has also told us alot of things.Another is David Cheramie
and Rev.MG Davis who was at one time under the ministry of Verbal Bean.
He is awesome.God is good and He does use people.They are not big names celebrated by alot of people but God uses them.

stmatthew · #24 07-07-2007, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouvere

I doubt that he is very celebrated but Brother Gordon Winslow is used alot in the Holy Ghost in prophecy.He has never missed in praying for us.Brother Charles Pierce has also told us alot of things.Another is David Cheramie
and Rev.MG Davis who was at one time under the ministry of Verbal Bean.
He is awesome.God is good and He does use people.They are not big names celebrated by alot of people but God uses them.

I have heard of "Chuck" Pierce", and have heard of Bro Winslow, but have not heard of the others. Can you give a little more info on them, or a website?

BoredOutOfMyMind · #25 07-07-2007, 07:04 PM

I have seen the working of a prophet. I witnessed one man used in all nine gifts over a 1 yr time span. I witnessed him blasted, mistrusted, lied about, and disfellowshipped in many churches and Districts. Zero mistakes, and yet zero trust from many.

I also witnessed some wildfire. Today there are more than one involved in chasing the latter it seems. Everyone wants the signs of Simon the Sorcerer, but few want the changing words of Simon Peter.

#26 07-07-2007, 07:07 PM

If it comes down to making a choice between the two, give me the life changing words any day.

Praxeas · #27 07-07-2007, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

So you are building you beliefs on what is NOT written in scripture than what IS written. If they had missed it, what does the old testament say would be the result of a Prophet that missed it??

I think you are now comparing the gift prophecy to the word of a Prophet. To me, they are 2 different things. Prophecy can fail. We do have a choice when it comes to prophecy to follow after God, and see it come to pass. But a Prophet speaks for God. He is Gods mouthpiece to the church. IF he misses, it is because he is speaking words other than Gods. This disqualifies him from being trusted as a Prophet.

I have little faith in any minister that will say thus saith the Lord when it is not God speaking.

Prophecies do NOT fail. Prophets might fail, but prophecies do not fail. A prophecy is the LORD speaking what shall come to pass. If it does not come to pass then the LORD lied. That is why it was so important in the bible for a prophet to be tested as to his word when he spoke in the name of the LORD.

BTW what exactly is a hit and miss? is it that a prophet made up a prophecy? Is it that he just misunderstood what God said? Is it that God missed and told the wrong prophecy?

stmatthew · #28 07-07-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Prophecies do NOT fail. Prophets might fail, but prophecies do not fail. A prophecy is the LORD speaking what shall come to pass. If it does not come to pass then the LORD lied. That is why it was so important in the bible for a prophet to be tested as to his word when he spoke in the name of the LORD.

BTW what exactly is a hit and miss? is it that a prophet made up a prophecy? Is it that he just misunderstood what God said? Is it that God missed and told the wrong prophecy?

While I agree that Prophecies do not fail in the sense you are saying, they do go unfulfilled because of certain conditions that may be connected with them. So I would say that prophecies are conditional upon our response to them. It does not mean God lied. And it does not mean a man lied.

But Again, I see a difference in the gift of prophecy, and the office of a Prophet.

The history of the "hit and miss Prophet" is that recently it was said that a Prophet was ok even if he missed it sometimes. So Prophet Jimbo could prophesy that God was going to raise up Sister SuzyQ off of her deathbed, and if she died it was ok. He just missed it on that one. He had previously prophesied that Carol Sue's wart would fall off, and it had. SO he was still a true prophet, even though his ratio was not 100%.

Praxeas · #29 07-07-2007, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

While I agree that Prophecies do not fail in the sense you are saying, they do go unfulfilled because of certain conditions that may be connected with them. So I would say that prophecies are conditional upon our response to them. It does not mean God lied. And it does not mean a man lied.

A conditional "prophesy" where someone is told "If you will go to such and such city then I will bless you with a building" and the person does not go, sure. But that's not really prophecy.

Quote:

But Again, I see a difference in the gift of prophecy, and the office of a Prophet.

Depends on what we mean by office of the prophet. Men and women were called prophets in Acts because they gave prophecies

Quote:

The history of the "hit and miss Prophet" is that recently it was said that a Prophet was ok even if he missed it sometimes. So Prophet Jimbo could prophesy that God was going to raise up Sister SuzyQ off of her deathbed, and if she died it was ok. He just missed it on that one. He had previously prophesied that Carol Sue's wart would fall off, and it had. SO he was still a true prophet, even though his ratio was not 100%.

What is happening when Jimbo the Prophet does that? Did he lie and invent it? Did he really receive a word from God? Did he receive a word and misunderstand it?

In the WOF movement they believe they don't need to hear from God, THEY have the power to prophecy. In other words if they say "money cometh" God is obligated to make it happen. That is contrary to biblical prophecy where God gives you the prophecy and you are supposed to relate that to the hearers

stmatthew · #30 07-07-2007, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

What is happening when Jimbo the Prophet does that? Did he lie and invent it? Did he really receive a word from God? Did he receive a word and misunderstand it?

In the WOF movement they believe they don't need to hear from God, THEY have the power to prophecy. In other words if they say "money cometh" God is obligated to make it happen. That is contrary to biblical prophecy where God gives you the prophecy and you are supposed to relate that to the hearers

All I can give is my opinion. I would say that maybe Jimbo got carried away and spoke out of turn. Or maybe he spoke out of his fleshly desire, mistaking it for Gods voice. I do not know.

But the question is, what does the bible tell us in regard to a Prophet that misses the mark, or speaks things that are not "Gods voice"? Are we to excuse such a man and just continue to here him as a Prophet?