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03-21-2011, 01:54 PM
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Location: Lexington KY
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Re: Encouraged
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charnock
How can you stand firm on Acts 2:38, yet believe that people who refuse to submit to baptism in the name of Jesus are okay, saved etc.?
Your position is very duplicitous. You either believe the doctrine, or you don't.
It sounds like you don't. |
Who has refused? Without being taught what being baptized in Jesus name is (preacher must pronounce the words over you) how is anyone guilty of refusing anything?
In their mind and faith they were baptized in Jesus name because they were baptized Christians. Its up to us to teach them how the original church baptized, not do God's job by condemning those which know not the apostolic truth.
Paul's treatment of believers in Acts 19 of whom he thought they were Christians should be the case for denominal believers. We should inquire if they have received the Spirit if they are a believer and perhaps go on to teaching about baptism. Paul never condemned them of what they had. He just inquired if they had more than belief.
__________________
To be able to unite in difference carries more weight than all the opinions the universe can hold
Last edited by onefaith2; 03-21-2011 at 01:57 PM.
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03-21-2011, 08:02 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Re: Encouraged
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
Because you're married into it???
I'm serious. That's no joking matter.
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I have yet to understand Charnocks quandary but yes, I am "married" into it in more ways than one... and thats not entirely a bad thing IMHO. If the reference is to my marriage to Kristin - you are right, I take my marriage far more seriously than any church squabbles.
Are there things that I would like to see changed? Absolutely. But I have no secret desire to be baptist or AOG etc. 
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Last edited by Hoovie; 03-21-2011 at 08:09 PM.
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03-21-2011, 08:06 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Encouraged
1Faith2 and PO, thank you for the input! I know God is working in other churches and fully believe we have no special rights to the gospel.
May God humble us all!
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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03-21-2011, 08:08 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Encouraged
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
I have yet to understand Charnocks quandary but yes, I am "married" into it in more ways than one... and thats not a bad thing IMHO. Are there things that I would like to see changed? Absolutely. But I have no secret desire to be baptist or AOG etc. |
No, but I know you wish something else!
Off the subject, but I am reading Success Made Simple; An Inside Look at Why Amish Businesses Thrive by Erik Wesner. Thought you might be interested!
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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03-21-2011, 08:24 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Encouraged
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charnock
If you believe people are saved without obeying Acts 2:38 then you are, in effect, admitting that classic Oneness Water/Spirit doctrine is not important.
I do not feel OP's are sectarian and elitists. They simply believe what they believe.
You, on the other hand, seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth. |
Both sides of my mouth... what on earth? I have always been transparent and consistent on this question.
The classic Oneness/UPCI position in recorded in my signature. Are you trying to rewrite history?
Let me be clear.
People are saved by faith in Christ and his work on the cross. They then respond to their faith and obey Acts 2:38. The fact is there is some dispute over how we do that. I firmly believe in calling the name of Jesus at the moment of baptism and that speaking in tongues is a sign of the Spirit's indwelling. When others reach different conclusions or have not yet accepted Acts 2:38 in the same way that I have, I do not feel at liberty to question or belittle their faith in Christ. I honestly do not.
Brother, please show me where I am speaking out of both sides of my mouth.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Last edited by Hoovie; 03-21-2011 at 08:31 PM.
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03-21-2011, 08:29 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Encouraged
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charnock
How can you stand firm on Acts 2:38, yet believe that people who refuse to submit to baptism in the name of Jesus are okay, saved etc.?
Your position is very duplicitous. You either believe the doctrine, or you don't.
It sounds like you don't. |
My previous post clearly states my position.
Please, would you reciprocate the same favor?
With all due respect, your recent posts have lead me to believe I really do not understand you position. And, I should add, if you don't feel at liberty to share here - that is OK too!
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Last edited by Hoovie; 03-21-2011 at 08:43 PM.
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03-21-2011, 08:36 PM
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Administrator
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Re: Encouraged
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
I wish my original pastor had had thoughts like these. Everybody was lost, including the liberal UPC pastors that didn't uphold the standards.....meaning ONLY three steppers who were conservative were saved......and you know that scripture about the righteous SCARCELY being saved.....???
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my experience with the UPC involved a significant number of people who thought just like your pastor. I think it is the norm not the exception for a lot of UPC people to not only thing trinnies are going to hell but liberal UPC folks as well.
Obviously there are exceptions but they are just that.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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03-21-2011, 08:37 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Encouraged
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
No, but I know you wish something else!
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I am not EXACTLY sure what that is... but hey i wish for a million bucks too!  FWIW I believe I have a great marriage!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
Off the subject, but I am reading Success Made Simple; An Inside Look at Why Amish Businesses Thrive by Erik Wesner. Thought you might be interested!
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Kewl. Is he Ex Amish? Let me know if you think I should add it to my library.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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03-21-2011, 08:40 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Encouraged
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
my experience with the UPC involved a significant number of people who thought just like your pastor. I think it is the norm not the exception for a lot of UPC people to not only thing trinnies are going to hell but liberal UPC folks as well.
Obviously there are exceptions but they are just that.
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Quite honestly, this does not even sound like a theological issue. It sounds like immaturity. How sad.
"Hell" is not a trump card we wave at others. Sounds like Gaddafi.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Last edited by Hoovie; 03-21-2011 at 08:48 PM.
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03-21-2011, 09:46 PM
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Ravaged by Grace
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,948
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Re: Encouraged
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charnock
If you believe people are saved without obeying Acts 2:38 then you are, in effect, admitting that classic Oneness Water/Spirit doctrine is not important.
I do not feel OP's are sectarian and elitists. They simply believe what they believe.
You, on the other hand, seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth. |
I agree, Charnock, on paragraphs one and three. Although your theology and mine doesn't match, we certainly see this the same way.
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