Encouraged

Hoovie · #1 03-20-2011, 05:05 PM

Recently I had a discussion with a friend and Spiritual mentor. He is a leader and and UPCI ordained minister. For what it's worth, I would consider him a three stepper and a moderate.

In the conversation he had mentioned he was glad other (non UPC) OPs had been invited and some came to GC.

I responded that I too liked that and had witnessed something similar at a UGST symposium a few years ago. The ministers had met for a scheduled hour prior to greeting the larger group. They started praying together which led to footwashing and ended up going waaay over the schedule.

I told my friend I loved that but the efforts at reconciliation haven't went far enough. When he questioned, I replied, "I am not content to keep these unity efforts among OPs. We should have similar efforts to
understand AOG and Baptists and the greater Evangelical movement. I feel the UPC has tightened it's official stance, and few will say things like Goss who viewed many non-OPs as brethren.

My friend responded, "I don't know that has really changed, while I stand firm on Acts 2:38, I consider the fellow ministers in our community my brothers and call them that as well. Furthermore, I have said many of us will be surprised at who all will be in heaven!"

So, this is very encouraging to me!

Hoovie · #2 03-20-2011, 05:17 PM

I should add that I have had many similar conversations with other licensed ministers. However, it was especially comforting to hear that this minister, who serves in official capacity, was in favor of dialog and discussion with Non-OPs, and admitted that at least a fair portion of our differences are semantics. The minister I make reference to would NOT be known for being "soft on the doctrine" at all.

It's interesting and encouraging to me. Praise God!

Cindy · #3 03-20-2011, 05:31 PM

Amen.

CC1 · #4 03-20-2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Recently I had a discussion with a friend and Spiritual mentor. He is a leader and and UPCI ordained minister. For what it's worth, I would consider him a three stepper and a moderate.

In the conversation he had mentioned he was glad other (non UPC) OPs had been invited and some came to GC.

I responded that I too liked that and had witnessed something similar at a UGST symposium a few years ago. The ministers had met for a scheduled hour prior to greeting the larger group. They started praying together which led to footwashing and ended up going waaay over the schedule.

I told my friend I loved that but the efforts at reconciliation haven't went far enough. When he questioned, I replied, "I am not content to keep these unity efforts among OPs. We should have similar efforts to
understand AOG and Baptists and the greater Evangelical movement. I feel the UPC has tightened it's official stance, and few will say things like Goss who viewed many non-OPs as brethren.

My friend responded, "I don't know that has really changed, while I stand firm on Acts 2:38, I consider the fellow ministers as brothers and call them that as well. I have said many of us will be surprised at who all will be in heaven!"

So, this is very encouraging to me!

I would be curious to know exactly what he meant by the statement I bolded.
I think 3 steppers, by the very nature of their doctrine, don't see those with a different doctrine as "brothers". They really can't.

So I am curious as to what he means by; 1. "....while I stand firm on Acts 2:38" and 2. "I consider these fellow ministers as brothers".

Hoovie, I think you continue to delude yourself that the UPC has a broader view of christendom than they really do.

Hoovie · #5 03-20-2011, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC1

I would be curious to know exactly what he meant by the statement I bolded.
I think 3 steppers, by the very nature of their doctrine, don't see those with a different doctrine as "brothers". They really can't.

So I am curious as to what he means by; 1. "....while I stand firm on Acts 2:38" and 2. "I consider these fellow ministers as brohers".

Hoovie, I think you continue to delude yourself that the UPC has a broader view of christendom than they really do.

Well sure it would be interesting to know how it might be defended theologically. I would argue that view would lead to more of a "One Step" PCI mindset which would be a good thing. For that matter, it would also be interesting to know how former GS Goss would defend it in detail. What is clear though, is both Goss and my friend expect to likely see non OPs in heaven. I concur and am content to let the theological debate of when precisely Justification occurs take place another time.

Deluded? I just gave you one of many examples. I have many examples like the one I gave.

In spite of what is often herelded from pulpits, there are many one steppers and three steppers in the UPC that believe the body of Christ is composed of more than Oneness Pentecostals.

Dedicated Mind · #6 03-20-2011, 05:56 PM

if non ops are saved, should we evangelize them?

Hoovie · #7 03-20-2011, 06:00 PM

BTW interestingly enough, some embrace a "three step" initiation process and yet point to the initial faith for justification.

Hoovie · #8 03-20-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

if non ops are saved, should we evangelize them?

Pretty much all churches seek to win others to their view on scripture. Whether or not evangelism is the correct term, I am sure OPs are no different in that regard.

ILG · #9 03-20-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Recently I had a discussion with a friend and Spiritual mentor. He is a leader and and UPCI ordained minister. For what it's worth, I would consider him a three stepper and a moderate.

In the conversation he had mentioned he was glad other (non UPC) OPs had been invited and some came to GC.

I responded that I too liked that and had witnessed something similar at a UGST symposium a few years ago. The ministers had met for a scheduled hour prior to greeting the larger group. They started praying together which led to footwashing and ended up going waaay over the schedule.

I told my friend I loved that but the efforts at reconciliation haven't went far enough. When he questioned, I replied, "I am not content to keep these unity efforts among OPs. We should have similar efforts to
understand AOG and Baptists and the greater Evangelical movement. I feel the UPC has tightened it's official stance, and few will say things like Goss who viewed many non-OPs as brethren.

My friend responded, "I don't know that has really changed, while I stand firm on Acts 2:38, I consider the fellow ministers in our community my brothers and call them that as well. Furthermore, I have said many of us will be surprised at who all will be in heaven!"

So, this is very encouraging to me!

I wish my original pastor had had thoughts like these. Everybody was lost, including the liberal UPC pastors that didn't uphold the standards.....meaning ONLY three steppers who were conservative were saved......and you know that scripture about the righteous SCARCELY being saved.....???

Theophil · #10 03-20-2011, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Pretty much all churches seek to win others to their view on scripture. Whether or not evangelism is the correct term, I am sure OPs are no different in that regard.

That's the truth. BTW, I wonder what percentage of AoG, Baptists, etc., think OPs are lost because we don't believe in the trinity.