Wow.....I Found this Shocking and Sad

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I completely disagree.

How so, specifically? You don't think understanding how and why such animosity has been created is a worthwhile pursuit?

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Nope, didn't say it was ok at all. I said we should try to understand why and how this environment has been created and bring a little understanding to the table rather than back-and-forth complaining.

It doesn't matter, she was an employee which she s expected to do a job in a certain manner. All kinds of people have had not so good life experiences but they must move on. can't use it as an excuse to not do right or better for themselves. (not saying you think otherwise)

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by notofworks

How so, specifically? You don't think understanding how and why such animosity has been created is a worthwhile pursuit?

At what point is it over? Yes, the US screwed up, blood was shed to make that right - it's over. When will it be even? 500 year anniversary? 1000 year anniversary? How can we try to move forward if we continually have to be apologetic?

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by notofworks

I figured you'd think so. Renda, I haven't disagreed with you since I've been here! Well, except all those infractions!

But really, like I just said to Jermyn, I don't think it has as much to do with race as it does this company just having a bad employee trying to use anything she can to get an edge. It happens all the time in dog-eat-dog workplace. Heck, it happens in the church and at the General Conference election for General Superintendent. That's really the main point I'm trying to make.

I think it it had been cousins teaming up against you, it would have been the same thing.

So after all you just said, with understanding WHY there would be racial tones about it, and the evidence from the other employee's mouth, you still refuse to believe that racism is involved here?

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

At what point is it over? Yes, the US screwed up, blood was shed to make that right - it's over. When will it be even? 500 year anniversary? 1000 year anniversary? How can we try to move forward if we continually have to be apologetic?

When? When it's really over. I think that's where we, as white people, get it really messed up. It's not over. And to be certain, there will always be racism throughout the world. But when we get somewhere close in the U.S. to be equal, then we might be able to say it's over. But right now now it's not even close to being equal.

You insinuate that it was over after the blood was shed...in the 1860's. But in my lifetime, and yours, black people couldn't vote, couldn't get a seat in many restaurants, couldn't drink out of public water fountains...can you even start to imagine how that felt? We still walk in the residue of the institutional racism of the United States government, which has always claimed liberty and justice for all.

And what about now? Research shows it's still significantly more difficult for a black person to get hired than a white person.

I'm just saying, there's STILL a LOT of animosity out there and I think it's flawed for us to pretend it's all over with.

My family doctor, who drives a Mercedes, has been stopped by police over 30 times...not once for speeding....not once for anything, and I'm in California.

It's not over. I wish it were.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Nope, didn't say it was ok at all. I said we should try to understand why and how this environment has been created and bring a little understanding to the table rather than back-and-forth complaining.

Geez. I didn't think it was back-and-forth complaining. I thought it was Renda sharing an "eye opener" from her own perspective. If she had given an example in reverse, what would your position be?

That doesn't mean understanding/or sharing. It means, Renda has a right to observe and share examples (as do others) and we can also "understand" as you've so ably provided to the thread. But it's not either/or.

You little hand-slapper you. Maybe a little too quick to correct on this one?

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by notofworks

How so, specifically? You don't think understanding how and why such animosity has been created is a worthwhile pursuit?

I think it's valuable to solving.

However, this post wasn't about "how to solve racism."

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Well now it's ok for a black person to have an attitude/misbehave because you know we got to even the score. What a crock.

Treat all equal.


I never knew how white I was tell I moved to the south. I've learned bigots come in all colors.

In some places in America, being black is still a liability in part because of the actions of other black people. Racial prejudice is wrong and destructive, but sometimes I understand how people can become racially prejudiced.

This goes for blacks, whites, asians-- everyone.

I believe there are instances, even today, where blacks may face prejudice and/or discrimination.

However, there are a lot of people that make things bad for themselves and others around them.

They come in all colors.

Renda cited an experience that involved black people.

Excuses are not acceptable.

The behavior described is completely indefensible.



NOW, you can't keep making excuses for people. You're so much of a bleeder, you could die from blood loss one day!

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

In some places in America, being black is still a liability in part because of the actions of other black people. Racial prejudice is wrong and destructive, but sometimes I understand how people can become racially prejudiced.

This goes for blacks, whites, asians-- everyone.

I believe there are instances, even today, where blacks may face prejudice and/or discrimination.

However, there are a lot of people that make things bad for themselves and others around them.

They come in all colors.

Renda cited an experience that involved black people.

Excuses are not acceptable.

The behavior described is completely indefensible.



NOW, you can't keep making excuses for people. You're so much of a bleeder, you could die from blood loss one day!

That's exactly how I see it. I would never expect other "white" people to stand behind me if I was in the wrong just because we are all white.

Just to think that she EXPECTED them to accept her behavior and not tell me just because they were homies was completely out of line.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

In some places in America, being black is still a liability in part because of the actions of other black people.

I believe there are instances, even today, where blacks may face prejudice and/or discrimination.

However, there are a lot of people that make things bad for themselves and others around them.

They come in all colors.

Renda cited an experience that involved black people.

Excuses are not acceptable.

The behavior described is completely indefensible.



NOW, you can't keep making excuses for people. You're so much of a bleeder, you could die from blood loss one day!

Even those who make it worse for themselves, we can look at it more through a sociological lens. Blacks have no inheritance of land here. They have no tradition of education. Some still have a slave mentality that is hard to undo, especially when they live in ghettos, surrounded by ruined neighborhoods, second-class schools and feelings of hopelessness. I don't ignore that this rides on their own action to change that: be responsible and minimize single-parent homes, get a glimpse of the possibilities outside the little world that many in poverty live in, etc... but neither do I pretend that is an easy challenge to overcome.