Should we teach others to rebel against Standards?

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Ok well here we are your using this OT Mosaic law scripture. First off, are you Jew or Gentile?

Well how funny that it is the same people like Martin Ballestero who fervently quote Deuteronomy 22:5, will you ask Martin if he is a Jew or a Gentile?

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Well how funny that it is the same people like Martin Ballestero who fervently quote Deuteronomy 22:5, will you ask Martin if he is a Jew or a Gentile?

He says "It's an abomination unto Him (the Lord)". That's part of the moral law, whatever is a abomination, is a abomination to Him, Jew or Gentile. An abomination from the time of the law of Moses, until forever.
He's got a leg to stand on there, while everything in Deuteronomy 22 is Cannanite practices. And He said in Deuteronomy 12:29-30 "When the Lord thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; [30] Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise."

[Apostolic1ness]

Sad to see some would try to justify their "anything goes" beliefs. Is this an apostolic forum or charismatic forum? Many here seem to have a hatred toward the more conservative side of Pentecost. Glad to see men like Elder Ballestero still preaching the truth.

So why do some of you have a problem with women in dresses or skirts?
Why do some of you have a problem with men with short hair and women with long hair?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

Sad to see some would try to justify their "anything goes" beliefs. Is this an apostolic forum or charismatic forum? ?

This is an Apostolic Forum which includes Conservative, Liberal, and former Apostolics.

Consider this an opportunity to defend the faith, and also to learn from others.

There are differences of belief here in Soteriology, Christology, Eschatology, and Sanctification.

There are also people outside Oneness Pentecostalism who come in from time to time to debate us.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

Sad to see some would try to justify their "anything goes" beliefs. Is this an apostolic forum or charismatic forum? Many here seem to have a hatred toward the more conservative side of Pentecost. Glad to see men like Elder Ballestero still preaching the truth.

So why do some of you have a problem with women in dresses or skirts?
Why do some of you have a problem with men with short hair and women with long hair?

Maybe there is some hatred toward the more conservative side of Pentecost from some people, however that does mean that everyone who disagrees with them on some issue hates them.

The issue is that is up to Pentecostal preachers like Ballestero to defend their doctrines using biblical texts and if they can not, then they can not simply use the "hatred" excuse to avoid giving a biblical answer.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

It is very apparent you guys are not preachers. Yes context matters but there are many applications of various texts. The scripture states that marching around Jericho caused the walls to fall down. With your context only philosophy you cant connect this scripture to anything in your life.

I sure hope you dont sit in church and judge the pastor with you philosophy Im sure he has enough to fight against without having to fight through your spirit and attitude toward the preaching.

You are new here, and have no idea who here is and is not a preacher. Don't jump the gun.

Context matters but...?

There is no "but". Without context, anyone can make the Holy Scriptures say anything they want them to. Oh wait...

As far as the standard argument of there being many applications, that's nonsense. There is not a single verse of Scripture given to anyone anywhere that authorizes us to take a verse of the Bible out of its context to make it apply some other way than the way it was originally intended when it was inspired and written.

Therefore, as far as the Jericho example goes, we had best not be able to apply the Jericho story to ourselves, because after the walls fell down, Israel rushed in and slaughtered everyone, men, women, and children.

You know, the Puritans and others applied "suffer not a witch to live" to their lives, and slaughtered a good number of people they believed were guilty of witchcraft. Didn't matter that the context was OT law for the nation of Israel. They felt they had an "application" they could use, and so did, as they were taught by their PREACHERS.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

You are new here, and have no idea who here is and is not a preacher. Don't jump the gun.

Context matters but...?

There is no "but". Without context, anyone can make the Holy Scriptures say anything they want them to. Oh wait...

As far as the standard argument of there being many applications, that's nonsense. There is not a single verse of Scripture given to anyone anywhere that authorizes us to take a verse of the Bible out of its context to make it apply some other way than the way it was originally intended when it was inspired and written.

Therefore, as far as the Jericho example goes, we had best not be able to apply the Jericho story to ourselves, because after the walls fell down, Israel rushed in and slaughtered everyone, men, women, and children.

You know, the Puritans and others applied "suffer not a witch to live" to their lives, and slaughtered a good number of people they believed were guilty of witchcraft. Didn't matter that the context was OT law for the nation of Israel. They felt they had an "application" they could use, and so did, as they were taught by their PREACHERS.

correct me if im wrong but it appears that you only see a history lesson in the scriptures. This is what it sounds like to me. You must be able to receive valuable principles and lessons that apply to your life even from the old test.

Do you think Paul took the scripture out of context when he used the Red Sea crossing as a type of baptism? exodus says nothing of the sort.

Im not saying twist the scriptures to conform to a man made doctrine. Im simply saying there are many applications to certain scriptures. and if thats not the case then we have no right to preach against tobacco products, drugs, pornography, just to name a few things that are not found in the Bible.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

correct me if im wrong but it appears that you only see a history lesson in the scriptures. This is what it sounds like to me. You must be able to receive valuable principles and lessons that apply to your life even from the old test.

Do you think Paul took the scripture out of context when he used the Red Sea crossing as a type of baptism? exodus says nothing of the sort.

Im not saying twist the scriptures to conform to a man made doctrine. Im simply saying there are many applications to certain scriptures. and if thats not the case then we have no right to preach against tobacco products, drugs, pornography, just to name a few things that are not found in the Bible.

Maybe that is the point, maybe you don't have the right, if it is not spelled out in scripture leave it alone.
And if it is not in scripture and you still teach something, expect that someone is going to challenge you.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

Sad to see some would try to justify their "anything goes" beliefs. Is this an apostolic forum or charismatic forum? Many here seem to have a hatred toward the more conservative side of Pentecost. Glad to see men like Elder Ballestero still preaching the truth.

So why do some of you have a problem with women in dresses or skirts?
Why do some of you have a problem with men with short hair and women with long hair?

I don't think it is so much having a problem with women wearing dresses or skirts. I think it is the issue of condemning women to Hell, disfellowshipping them, and treating women as though they are to be reserved for firewood if they don't wear dresses and skirts.

Also, I don't have a problem with teaching that men have short hair and that women have long hair. That's biblical. The notion of "uncut" hair for women is debatable.

I believe in Christian modesty. But I believe it is a Christian discipline, a practice. It is something that develops over time. It is something that should be embraced through study and practiced by the individual out of love and for the sake of edification. I don't see it as something that should be forced by threat of Hell.

It's like the beard standard. It's often said, "We believe in strictly sticking to the book." But the fact is... we have many traditions of man being taught for doctrines.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Maybe that is the point, maybe you don't have the right, if it is not spelled out in scripture leave it alone.
And if it is not in scripture and you still teach something, expect that someone is going to challenge you.

We do have the right to preach against unrighteousness and sin. There is no question about that. The fact that not everything is mentioned in scripture does not mean leave it alone. Some things are obviously wrong and dont belong in the life of someone who is a christian. But I do agree that some people will challenge things that are not spelled out in black and white.