Should we teach others to rebel against standards?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I never made that statement. Got a quote? Two things about that.

I don't have the time or desire to search through your posts, but I do know both you and Aquila have posted more than once that you won't attend a church with a prohibition on beards.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

1. If they have the true Biblical foundation as I see it, it's possible I would go to one. Perhaps if they have at least more truth than the typical Apostolic Church.

But you don't consider prohibition on beards as having any biblical foundation, so it fails your standard.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

2. What constitutes an "Apostolic Church"? Just because a Church believes in Acts 2:38 and Oneness...are they REALLY an Apostolic Church? Are we really Apostolic if all our foundation doctrines except Acts 2:38 are false?

An Apostolic church is one which believes and preaches the Apostles doctrine. I thought it was pretty self-explanatory.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

I don't have the time or desire to search through your posts, but I do know both you and Aquila have posted more than once that you won't attend a church with a prohibition on beards.

BUZZZZT. (Lie-o-meter)

That's not what was said. What was said is that we believe that churches that prohibit facial hair are teaching for doctrine the commandments of men, and are therefore fallen from pure biblical truth. And we do not desire to attend a church in sin.

An Apostolic church is one which believes and preaches the Apostles doctrine. I thought it was pretty self-explanatory.

That's why you're blind. Did the Apostles prohibit beards? Then if your church does, it isn't expressly following the doctrine of the Apostles now, is it???

To strive to be Apostolic is to strive to be biblical and to practice Christianity as the Apostles did. In this discussion, we're primarily talking about beards. Did the Apostles ever prohibit beards? If not, then such a teaching isn't "Apostolic", it is only a tradition of man being taught as doctrine. And if such a tradition of man is codified and established in a church (made a doctrine), then that church is anchored there... and cannot move forward into the fullness of true and pure Apostolic truth.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Aquila

BUZZZZT. (Lie-o-meter)

That's not what was said. What was said is that we believe that churches that prohibit facial hair are teaching for doctrine the commandments of men, and are therefore fallen from pure biblical truth. And we do not desire to attend a church in sin.



That's why you're blind. Did the Apostles prohibit beards? Then if your church does, it isn't expressly following the doctrine of the Apostles now, is it???

To strive to be Apostolic is to strive to be biblical and to practice Christianity as the Apostles did. In this discussion, we're primarily talking about beards. Did the Apostles ever prohibit beards? If not, then such a teaching isn't "Apostolic", it is only a tradition of man being taught as doctrine. And if such a tradition of man is codified and established in a church (made a doctrine), then that church is anchored there... and cannot move forward into the fullness of true and pure Apostolic truth.

Doubtless you are the man Aquila, and wisdom will die with you.

[1ofthechosen]

Ok I just was listening to this this is why no one is changing facial hair standards. It's been said here already but he says it 30:30-34:15 it explains it all. But Michael he has a real thing to say about the idea of the Acts 22:17 people ( not then in particular, but the spirit involved there) from 38:45-40:17. Really this whole message is good like the other one. He's speaking truth. All Apostolics should at least listen to 38:45 until the end. But I recommend the whole thing.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."

[Michael The Disciple]

To the degree we teach false doctrine we are in sin. YAH is very patient (for the most part) and desires that men submit to the Holy Spirit as he guides us into more truth. But like you say he doesnt seem to give "assurance" that we can in the end be saved if our doctrine is false.

Of course SOME of them will say all that matters is Acts 2:38 and Oneness. About anything else and they gives themselves a pass!

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

That's not what was said. What was said is that we believe that churches that prohibit facial hair are teaching for doctrine the commandments of men, and are therefore fallen from pure biblical truth. And we do not desire to attend a church in sin.

Oh good grief. The bottom line is you don't want to go to a church with a prohibition against beards. You can try to act like it's some stand on truth, but we know you have no such thing so you're not fooling anyone.

The church isn't in sin. Prohibition on beards isn't a doctrine of devils.

#StopIt

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

That's why you're blind. Did the Apostles prohibit beards?

They were Jews, it was their custom.

Originally Posted by Aquila

In this discussion, we're primarily talking about beards. Did the Apostles ever prohibit beards? If not, then such a teaching isn't "Apostolic"

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Doubtless you are the man Aquila, and wisdom will die with you.

You're such a sweetheart Amanah. lol

Do you believe that based on Christ's admonitions blow, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men is... a sin?

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark 7:7
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matthew 15:6
Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Mark 7:13
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Ok I just was listening to this this is why no one is changing facial hair standards. It's been said here already but he says it 30:30-34:15 it explains it all. But Michael he has a real thing to say about the idea of the Acts 22:17 people ( not then in particular, but the spirit involved there) from 38:45-40:17. Really this whole message is good like the other one. He's speaking truth. All Apostolics should at least listen to 38:45 until the end. But I recommend the whole thing.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."

So that's why they haven't stopped teaching for doctrine the commandments of men! Makes perfect sense. LOL

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You're such a sweetheart Amanah. lol

Do you believe that based on Christ's admonitions blow, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men is... a sin?

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Aquila, if you have an outward form of worship, but are not worshipping from the heart, then you are worshipping in vain. That was the problem that Matthew 15 was addressing, because there is nothing wrong with washing your hands.

Anyone who argues that Billy Graham or IHOP is possibly saved but Apostolics who are clean shaven are lost, just has an issue with mainstream apostolic churches that has nothing to do with beards really.

I think its your goal in life to discredit the UPC or other churches because you have deep seated issues.

At first it bothered me that you feel this way but I'm over it now.