Can A Real Believer Support Abortion Rights? - Page 2

Jermyn Davidson · #11 09-29-2008, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

Is the fetus, in the mother's womb, before taking it's first breath, a living soul?

-Bro. Alex

If it is, then it is capable of sinning.

The soul that sinneth shall die. Some souls sin and some don't, right?

If it is a soul, and he/she does not repent of it's sins what happens to it should it meet an untimely death?

David said he was born in sin and shaped in iniquity.

Is there a soul that is born saved? If so, when does he/she lose their salvation?

Ev. Duane Williams · #12 09-29-2008, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

Is the fetus, in the mother's womb, before taking it's first breath, a living soul?

-Bro. Alex

Yes. I know where you're going with this. "But God hasn't yet breathed the Breath of Life into them yet!" Please. God breathing into Adam the Breath of Life was a one time event, and ALL of mankind became a living soul from the moment one becomes a human, which is incotrovertibly at conception.

Ev. Duane Williams · #13 09-29-2008, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1399

If it is, then it is capable of sinning.

The soul that sinneth shall die. Some souls sin and some don't, right?

If it is a soul, and he/she does not repent of it's sins what happens to it should it meet an untimely death?

David said he was born in sin and shaped in iniquity.

Is there a soul that is born saved? If so, when does he/she lose their salvation?

What sins do a baby commit in the womb?

Can David please write a metaphorical Psalm without having his words taken out of context and used to condemn the unborn to hell?

Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it. Deut. 1:39

For before the children shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. Isaiah 7:16

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth) Romans 9:11

Aquila · #14 09-29-2008, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams

Imagine replacing one word in your last paragraph and see how it sounds.

Sorry...I don't believe a murder is an acceptable thing to do in the majority of cases....but I still think it's best to leave that choice in the hands of individuals than the government. People will answer to God for their choices.

Aquila, the U.S., State, and local governments are required to defend the rights of equal protection under the law to ALL Citizens. If a store clerk is murdered, doesn't his/her murderer deserve to be punished by the Gov't? If so, why? He was just making a private choice to end a life he didn't want, right? Are the unborn Citizens? Are they humans? I believe they are. If you disagree, then why would abortion be unacceptable in most cases?

Since our system has wrongfully executed individuals do you stand against the death penalty for the sake of those who may be wrongfully convicted in the future? Or is murder in this case justifiable for the "common good"?

Aquila · #15 09-29-2008, 06:56 AM

All I know is that if my wife were ever on the table and possibly in need of an abortion, though it would be the darkest day of our lives, I think that choice should be ours not the governments.

TRFrance · #16 09-29-2008, 07:49 AM

Abortion to save the life of the mother? I suppose so.

Abortion as a form of birth control? Absolutley not.

Baron1710 · #17 09-29-2008, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Abortion to save the life of the mother? I suppose so.

Abortion as a form of birth control? Absolutley not.

I don't know if you live in an area where Obama runs his campaign ads but I do and 9 out of 10 of them emphasize the difference between himself and McCain on the issue of Abortion. He has some commercials that are dedicated to that issue alone. He would not support a bill that banned abortion except in the cases of rape or incest or for the life of the mother. He wants abortion on demand.

I would support a bill that banned abortion except for the three reasons stated above even though I am not comfortable with the first two. The reality is Obama is prod of his abortioon on demand view. And this cannot be reconciled with Scripture. A friend of mine at the ACLJ has a few tag lines that he runs each day here are a couple of them.

Jim wonders whether freedom of choice extends to all male children under two in Judea and makes Herod an okay guy facing a question above his pay grade.

Jim thinks people are too hard on Pharaoh for killing the baby boys . . . just think of it as him exercising his freedom of choice.

Jim thanks God that Obama's pals at Planned Parenthood didn't murder John the Baptist, an inconvenient child born at an age when birth defects are real "threats".

Jim worries that if God is the defender of the weak, and if unborn children are the weak, then our abortion laws make us God's enemy.

MissBrattified · #18 09-29-2008, 08:04 AM

I think what bother's me the most is when Christians say this issue doesn't or can't matter. How can it not? How can you endorse or vote for candidates who you know support abortion? They don't take a "neutral" stance. Far from it.

It isn't the "only" issue that matters to me (obviously), but it IS an important one.

Jermyn Davidson · #19 09-29-2008, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I think what bother's me the most is when Christians say this issue doesn't or can't matter. How can it not? How can you endorse or vote for candidates who you know support abortion? They don't take a "neutral" stance. Far from it.

It isn't the "only" issue that matters to me (obviously), but it IS an important one.

It's not as important to me because I don't think anything will actually get done to change it.

Is it really possible that abortion will be outlawed tomorrow, next month, next year?

If it was possible, why hasn't it happened yet?

Even if abortion was outlawed THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE A PROVISION that PROTECTS the life of the mother or else I would not support it.

MissBrattified · #20 09-29-2008, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1399

It's not as important to me because I don't think anything will actually get done to change it.

Is it really possible that abortion will be outlawed tomorrow, next month, next year?

If it was possible, why hasn't it happened yet?

Even if abortion was outlawed THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE A PROVISION that PROTECTS the life of the mother or else I would not support it.

I would be more satisfied with this point of view IF the democratic candidates would say they are going to be uninvolved, instead of voting one way or the other on abortion. The truth is, the democrats ARE doing something "about it"--they're actively making it more accessible every day. I'd rather have a Republican who isn't changing the present laws than a Democrat who will make the laws even more lenient than they already are.

Actually, though, quite a few Republicans have worked toward REAL change on the issue of abortion, and HAVE actually passed laws to at least keep things in check. Better than nothing, but more definitely needs to be done.

I do not believe that it is possible for abortion to ever be outlawed. I think provisions will always be in place to protect the life of the mother, or for cases of rape and incest. However, I do think it can be reduced and limited, so that all the abortions for the sake of convenience can be filtered out, and more importantly, late-term abortions should be completely banned--for any reason. The same trauma a woman can go through to abort a late-term baby, can achieve BIRTH or Cesarean birth of the baby. For abortion to even be available for late-term pregnancies is a horror and atrocity I cannot even begin to understand. EVEN in the case of mother's life, rape or incest--if the pregnancy has gotten to a certain point, there is no greater risk of delivery than there is of aborting the baby. Therefore, there is NO reason to abort. And by "abort", I mean deliberately END the life of the fetus; not just remove the fetus from the womb for the sake of saving the mother.

I have no objection to inducing delivery when the life of the mother is in danger, as long as proper attention is also given to saving the life of the child.