Welcome Fellow Christians - Steve Pixler 8/17/14

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Charnock

Jason, EB loves to ask tons of questions without ever posting any content of his own.

Who is caustic?

Ed you must sit in front of your computer and scream at the screen.

[Steve Epley]

If I knew how I would go back and delete my comments. I shouldn't get involved in this issue it is too close to me. I mean no offence.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I think I need to make my self more clear, you posted, if they can't agree to those things you would suggest they would be better off at the church of Oprah until they are ready to admit they are a sinner in need of Jesus.

Aren't "those things" the 5 things you listed? Being your tenets of faith? So, if you have a family (or families) who now believe that water baptism isn't essential for salvation, and who are strongly convinced only in the baptism of the Holy Ghost is essential for salvation, would you stop them from taking communion?

No I wouldn't stop them from taking communion assuming they have been baptized. Its not complicated. Though I see baptism as part of the Christian experience I believe the point of salvation is when the sinner is justified by faith and is now at peace with God. There are tons of opinions on water baptism, as long as one affirms that a believer ought to be baptized then what's the big deal? I think we as men too often take it upon ourselves to cull the church.

Now if someone absolutely refuses baptism, then as I said before, we'd discuss it, I'd show them the scriptures, also have them consider church history, and if they still refused I'd have to tell them that I was sorry but so far as I understand the scripture all those who have repented of their sins and trusted in Christ identify with Him through water baptism (would probably emphasize Romans 6:1-5). If we just couldn't agree that a person needs to be baptized then we'd probably need to part ways.

I don't try to keep everybody. I openly tell people if you don't want to attend church here, please find another church, but go to church somewhere. If someone leaves I tell them I pray that they will find a place they can serve God and grow. Of course it hurts when someone leaves but I've found it much better to just take the high road and know if they are one of His sheep He will guide them. If not, they were temporary anyway. When I was OP if someone left many times all hell was prophesied over that person. Divorce, drugs, backsliding, etc. I don't do that. I don't want or like losing people but I'm not going to heap condemnation on them for leaving. I don't believe Fellowship Bible Church is the only true church. I know there are a lot of "bad" churches, probably more bad than good, but despite that there are many good solid churches. So if someone wants to leave hopefully they find a good church. But if they leave wanting carnality and worldliness then they will find that too.

But I'm a pretty conservative guy in a post modern world. Our church isn't going to be for everybody. We are not seeker sensitive. My goal is to glorify God and faithfully proclaim His Word. If someone is looking for a church that is centered on the Word of God, a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, a desire to grow in holiness, and a desire to reach the lost then there is a reasonable chance they may like our church.

If someone is looking for good music (we use tracks), a big youth program, lits if extra curricular activities and various small group ministries (mens , women's, married, singles, teen, tweens, divorcees,cowboys, bikers, etc, etc) we are probably not a good fit. Were just a small basic church.

If someone wants a church where the sermons are tailored to the congregation, surveys are handed out to see what topics they would like to hear, if they are looking for a church that raffles iPods, TVs, and Ford pick up trucks. We're not for them.

If someone wants a church where the preacher doesn't define sin by name, doesn't proclaim all other (non Christian) religions false, talk about the wrath if God, the blood of Christ, and the dangers if false conversion. They'd probably be more comfortable elsewhere.

If someone doesn't think homosexuality is a sin to be repented of and abandoned, you guessed it.

So these things being so I have to accept that the church isn't for everyone. Its not that I want to run a single person off or offend anyone. I am greatly discouraged by every single visitor that doesn't come back or those that attend a few weeks then disappear. I wonder if I am the problem. But I do keep in mind that as long as I hold to that church philosophy in thus culture its not going to be for everyone and I just have to live with that.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

If I knew how I would go back and delete my comments. I shouldn't get involved in this issue it is too close to me. I mean no offence.

Brother you said every good saint should leave that church. That was pretty strong. Are you now saying you went to far?

We've all said things we wish we could take back. (I'm the Chief of foot in mouth syndrome). If you did in this instance, I for one won't hold it against you. But can you clarify that you believe your statement about people needing to leave SPs church was out of line?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

No I wouldn't stop them from taking communion assuming they have been baptized. Its not complicated. Though I see baptism as part if the Christian experience I believe the point if salvation is when the sinner is justified by faith and is now at peace with God. There are tons of opinions on water baptism, as long as one affirms that a believer ought to be baptized then what's the big deal. I think we as men too often take it upon ourselves to cull the church.

Now if someone absolutely refuses baptism, then as I said before, we'd discuss it, I'd show them the scriptures, also have them consider church history, and if they still refused I'd have to tell them that I was sorry but so far as I understand the scripture all those who have repented if their sins and trusted in Christ identify with Him through water baptism (would probably emphasize Romans 6:1-5). If we just couldn't agree that a person need to be baptized then we'd probably need to part ways.

I don't try to keep everybody. I openly tell people if you don't want to attend church here, please find another church, but go to church somewhere. If someone leaves I tell them I pray that they will find a place they can serve God and grow. Of course it hurts when someone leaves but I've found it much better to just take the high road and know if they are one if His sheep He will guide them. If not, they were temporary anyway. When I was OP if someone left many times all hell was prophesied over that person. Divorce, drugs, backsliding, etc. I don't do that. I don't want or like losing people.

But I'm a pretty conservative guy in a post modern world. Our church isn't going to be for everybody. We are not seeker sensitive. My goal is to glorify God and faithfully proclaim His Word. If someone is looking for a church that is centered on the Word of God, a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, a desire to grow in holiness, and a desire to reach the lost then there is a reasonable chance they may like our church.

If someone is looking for good music (we use tracks), a big youth program, lits if extra curricular activities and various small group ministries (mens , women's, married, singles, teen, tweens, divorcees,cowboys, bikers, etc, etc) we are probably not a good fit. Were just a small basic church.

If someone wants a church where the sermons are tailored to the congregation, surveys are handed out to see what topics they would like to hear, if they are looking for a church that raffles iPods, TVs, and Ford pick up trucks. We're not for them.

If someone wants a church where the preacher doesn't define sin by name, doesn't proclaim all other (non Christian) religions false, talk about the wrath if God, the blood of Christ, and the dangers if false conversion. They'd probably be more comfortable elsewhere.

If someone doesn't think homosexuality is a sin to be repented of and abandoned, you guessed it.

So these things being so I have to accept that the church isn't for everyone. Its not that I want to run a single person off or offend anyone. I am greatly discouraged by every single visitor that doesn't come back or those that attend a few weeks then disappear. I wonder if I am the problem. But I do keep in mind that as long as I hold to that church philosophy in thus culture its not going to be for everyone and I just have to live with that.

Then in the same breath if you teach all these people for years your teachings, then at some point YOU change, wouldn't you expect them to want to leave? Remember you taught them how you see truth, and they were totally convinced, so if you at some point change you would understand that those who refused to change with you would have full right to leave?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Then in the same breath if you teach all these people for years your teachings, then at some point YOU change, wouldn't you expect them to want to leave? Remember you taught them how you see truth, and they were totally convinced, so if you at some point change you would understand that those who refused to change with you would have full right to leave?

Absolutely. No question.

However I would explain what caused me to change, with the scriptures, and allow them to be good Bereans and determine for themselves if those things were so according to the scripture.

But if they believed I was in error then yes they'd have every right to leave.

That's one thing. However if another pastor was telling them they need to leave, unless I am teaching damnable heresy demonstrated from scripture (like say performing a homosexual wedding, or saying Muslims and Hindus are saved without Christ for example) then it would be very much out of line for another to interfere with those people who God in His Providence and Sovereign will has placed under my care. IMO

[Jason B]

EB I'm about to hit the sack. I've enjoyed the discussion and Q&A. Much love to you my brother. I know we're night and day on soteriology and eschatology but love you none the less. Even when you get cantankerous (but you've been real gentlemanly tonight), I enjoy the discussion.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Absolutely. No question.

However I would explain what caused me to change, with the scriptures, and allow them to be good Beareans and determine for themselves if those things were so according to the scripture.

But if they believed I was in error then yes they'd have every right to leave.

That's one thing. However if another pastor was telling them they need to leave, unless I am teaching damnable heresy demonstrated from scripture (like say performing a homosexual wedding, or saying Muslims and Hindus are saved without Christ for example) then it would be very much out of line for another to interfere with those people who God in His Providence and Sovereign will has placed under my care. IMO

People having freedom to leave because they didn't change even after you explained yourself in detail. I can't speak for the elder but isn't that what he meant by "good saints leaving?" If after your change, even after you discussed your new direction to your people, and to your fellowship of ministers, and they still didn't accept your new views, why blame them if they held the same sentiments as Elder Epley?

Minister changes teachings, so others in his movement advocate that those congregants who haven't changed along with the preacher move on.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

EB I'm about to hit the sack. I've enjoyed the discussion and Q&A. Much love to you my brother. I know we're night and day on soteriology and eschatology but love you none the less. Even when you get cantankerous (but you've been real gentlemanly tonight), I enjoy the discussion.

Good night, and have a good day tomorrow.

[Sister Alvear]

Just prayed for The Pixler family....