Noah and the Ark

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by notofworks

What you say sounds spiritual and Godly. But I believe there are two things to consider:

1) What if there is more to learn form all this? What if there's a great truth to the "Red Sea" than, "Wow, God sure done killed those suckers!" What if there is a worthwhile value of spiritual enrichment that could make our lives more productive and fulfilled? We may miss what God could teach us by just focusing on how, "God'll wipe out our enemies!!"

2) The minister you quoted...it sounds wonderful. But it simply doesn't wash with an educated post-modern culture. That man wouldn't have a chance talking to a suspicious, cynical college student. But Pelathias would be able to hold a meaningful dialogue with anyone on the subject. Unfortunately, the details of Noah's Ark aren't possible by any study of physics. We need to be able to say something besides, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it." Our post-modern culture equivocates "Noah's Ark" and "Jonah & the Whale" with "Jack & Jill" and "Humpty Dumpty."

And we're losing. Professions of Christ-faith have dropped radically over the last 21 years. Teenagers? Even the most optimistic of surveys reveal that less than 10% profess Christ-faith. And of the Christian high-schoolers that go to college? 75% of them walk away from their faith during that time.

We're losing and we have to have better dialogue with the unchurched than, "The bible said it, now you better believe it or you'll burn in hell."

A double, Amen!

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Esther

I think the problem with too many people is they don't have faith in God's Word.

It the Bible says it I believe it and don't have a need to try and prove or disprove it.

If God kept the widow woman's meal and oil to not end, why do you think He would not be able to do the same?

Perhaps we don't see the miracle today as before is because everyone has to disect it and then discredit it.

As one minister I heard say, if the Bible said Jonah swallowed the whale I would believe it.

You either accept the Word of God as being divine inspired on you don't.

How do you explain the Red Sea rolled back? It is not something that day nor today would be capble of doing.

Have Faith in God's Word.

Esther, this sounds good, but you weren't there to experience any of these things. Keep in mind, you are trusting others to clarify something you haven't seen, felt, or touched. IMO, we should be able to take current events to prove or disprove past writings that may be flawed. We must. We owe it to everyone to Validate what others have told us, otherwise we may pass down more myths or lies that simply deceive further generations.

I haven't brought this up, but another great problem with such a massive flood is atmospheric pressure. Think about it. If the Ark sailed higher than every mountain on Earth, oxygen levels and atmospheric pressure would kill everyone on board.

There are many other problems that would arise, if water of this paticular mass were to cover the Earth. There are many studies and articles that shed greater light upon this subject. I believe it's a worthy cause to search out the absolute Truth.

If it wasn't so clear that past civilizations have been manipulated by the Religious order of the World, I would say, let's have Faith. But that is not the case. Peoples from our past have been demanded to believe in something, only to find out later, they were following a lie.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Esther

I think the problem with too many people is they don't have faith in God's Word.

It the Bible says it I believe it and don't have a need to try and prove or disprove it.

Upon what basis do you believe it?

Failing to answer that would result in your abandonment of all evangelism. What basis would we offer to others to believe "our Book" over the many other books that have made similar claims of divine inspiration?

Originally Posted by Esther

If God kept the widow woman's meal and oil to not end, why do you think He would not be able to do the same?

Perhaps we don't see the miracle today as before is because everyone has to disect it and then discredit it.

Then what was the motivation behind the original miracle? Surely there were people in that day who wanted to "dissect and discredit" everything God was doing. That was the primary impetus behind Elijah's display at Mount Carmel (1 Kings 18) during the same period of time.

And yet, despite the sneering skeptics, Elijah kept right on doing miracles. Why should our skeptics of today have such might as to over power the miracles that God would otherwise want to do? Has God become weakened in the intervening years?

Originally Posted by Esther

As one minister I heard say, if the Bible said Jonah swallowed the whale I would believe it.

I'm afraid that if the Bible were nothing but a story book full of such silly tales as that I wouldn't believe any of it.

I believe the Bible for what it does say and the message it actually imparts; not whatever silly notions "some preacher" wants to attach to it.

Originally Posted by Esther

You either accept the Word of God as being divine inspired on you don't.

And you either accept it on its own terms or you make up stuff like "if Jonah had swallowed the whale..."

Originally Posted by Esther

How do you explain the Red Sea rolled back? It is not something that day nor today would be capble of doing.

Have Faith in God's Word.

I'm afraid that from this testimony so far, that I probably can safely say that I have more confidence the Bible as God's inspired word than you or that "some preacher."

Sorry, not to boast, but if you can't accept the Bible for what it says and accept the real world within which we live then I have to question the measure of faith on display. To accept this approach to Bible apologetics I have to accept the idea that "Jonah might have swallowed the whale" if that helped to move the story line along?

This sounds more like something the desperate prophets of Baal might have been saying about their "books" just before they gave up and started to cut themselves.

I don't mean to be harsh Esther, especially not to you. But the "just believe the Bible no matter what" line of thinking is the kind of stuff that got the "Died While Fasting" thread started and contributes to the people who let their own children die when a simple shot of insulin would have saved their lives.

I know you'd never be so callous about innocent human life. I'm just trying to suggest that there's probably a lot of good exegesis, hermeneutics and plain old common sense within you that you haven't even begun to tap yet.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Bryan

well articulated post.

Yeah! See? Bryan's "right on!" No "issues" here!

And excellent points NOW.

[pelathais]

"But with regard to the material world, we can at least go so far as this – we can perceive that events are brought about not by insulated interpositions of Divine power, exerted in each particular case, but by the establishment of general laws."

W. Whewell, Bridgewater Treatise (on Natural Design)

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by notofworks

But even Moses would have been quite shocked that 400 billion animals floated, ate, drank, pooped, and peed for 40 days on a boat and were cared for by 8 people, so it seems reasonable that if that stuff didn't happen, and they were sleeping the entire time, he would have said something about it.

I don't believe there were 400 billion animals on the ark.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So you take it literal? You don't look at the Hebrew words and see that it can mean a non-specific period of time or an age?

Yet you DO that with scriptures in the NT that speak of Eternal Destruction

I have read Genesis and yes I do know that the word "day" can be a literal 24 hour day or a period of time. However, the phrase "and there was evening and morning" lends itself to the natural reading that it is speaking of 24 hour days. A rabbi I knew emphasized that the wording demands 24 hour days. However, he believes that it is just a symbolic poem.

I firmly believe that if it weren't for evolutionary thought we would simply embrace the literal reading without an issue. Our society has been brainwashed to accept evolution to the point that devout believers in God read the word through the lenses defined by science.

God created Adam from the dust of the ground... God created Eve from Adam's rib. Creation is a miracle that was spoken from the lips of an intelligent Creator, not a radom process. I believe the scientific data is misunderstood by modern science. Also the amount of discoveries that are disregarded because they disagree with evolutionary thought are testimonies that they are filtering what they are telling us. Frauds are discovered on a regular basis. Why twist and turn the words of the Bible to agree with this shifting sand?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

We don't know it was penned by Moses. IN fact there is evidence revealed here a day or so ago, that suggest he might not have penned it or at the least it was edited alter on by a scribe

Edited I can understand. But I believe it to have originally been written by Moses.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't believe there were 400 billion animals on the ark.

There had to be that many just in Noah's drinking water!

http://www.scopeonarope.lsu.edu/clas...p_of_Water.htm

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by notofworks

What you say sounds spiritual and Godly. But I believe there are two things to consider:

1) What if there is more to learn form all this? What if there's a greater truth to the "Red Sea" than, "Wow, God sure done killed those suckers!" What if there is a worthwhile value of spiritual enrichment that could make our lives more productive and fulfilled? We may miss what God could teach us by just focusing on how, "God'll wipe out our enemies!!"

2) The minister you quoted...it sounds wonderful. But it simply doesn't wash with an educated post-modern culture. That man wouldn't have a chance talking to a suspicious, cynical college student. But Pelathias would be able to hold a meaningful dialogue with anyone on the subject. Unfortunately, the details of Noah's Ark aren't possible by any study of physics. We need to be able to say something besides, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it." Our post-modern culture equivocates "Noah's Ark" and "Jonah & the Whale" with "Jack & Jill" and "Humpty Dumpty."

And we're losing. Professions of Christ-faith have dropped radically over the last 21 years. Teenagers? Even the most optimistic of surveys reveal that less than 10% profess Christ-faith. And of the Christian high-schoolers that go to college? 75% of them walk away from their faith during that time.

We're losing and we have to have better dialogue with the unchurched than, "The bible said it, now you better believe it or you'll burn in hell."

I wouldn't tell them that they'll burn in Hell. But I would tell them that this is God's Word.

Think of it like this... the Bible has been preserved without any major alteration for thousands of years. Evolutionary discoveries are retracted every year because of fraudulent data. Who's report will you believe?

Being a believer means believing in an all powerful God who isn't limited by scientific laws or theories. He is so grand he leaves all scientists, and even many many believers baffled. Welcome to the world of the mystical and supernatural.

I believe that the more we water it down for their "acceptance" the more we'll loose in the long run.