Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Seems your needle just jumps all over your record doesn't it. Thought you left. Welcome back

Can you deal with that passage instead of insult?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

We were discussing Isaiah. It was claimed to be "fulfilled"

Here is what it says: "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever"

I asked - where is the kingdom, peace, and government?

I answered - it is in the future. Summary: These passages are not fulfilled and no possible combination of completely unrelated passages will ever convince even the most unlearned that they are

Hebrews 1:1 says that God who at "sundry times", meaning in allotments or in sections spoke to us. IOW, He revealed Himself and things pertaining to our relationship with Him in a "piecemeal" fashion.

My post still stands in reference to His Spirit/Comforter/HolyGhost, as He is speaking of the Kingdom of God being "in us". Luke 17 states that the Kingdom comes without observation and that it lies within us.

Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the Lord Almighty
Isaiah 9:7

"This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah[b] the son of David, the son of Abraham:" Matthew 1:1

"Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see (properly see; to know) the kingdom of God unless they are born again." John 3:3

"Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit." John 3:5

"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit," Romans 14:17

The kingdom, peace and government lies within those who have obeyed the gospel. Nothing outside of Jesus Christ will bring us lasting peace.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Can you deal with that passage instead of insult?

That wasn't an insult.

Can you deal with the 50 or so that I referenced? No? Well, I'm not leaving over it. Guess we are back to word by word.

6 And he said to me (that's the messenger talking to John), `These words [are] stedfast and true, and the Lord God of the holy prophets did send His messenger to shew to His servants the things that it behoveth to come quickly:

7 Lo, I come quickly (same entity speaking); happy [is] he who is keeping the words of the prophecy of this scroll.'

8 And I, John, am he who is seeing these things and hearing, and when I heard and beheld, I fell down to bow before the feet of the messenger who is shewing me these things;

and he saith to me, `See -- not; for fellow-servant of thee am I, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of those keeping the words of this scroll; before God bow.'

10 And he saith to me, `Thou mayest not seal the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is nigh;

11 he who is unrighteous -- let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy -- let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous -- let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified -- let him be sanctified still:

12 And lo, I come quickly, and my reward [is] with me, to render to each as his work shall be;

13 I am the Alpha and the Omega -- the Beginning and End -- the First and the Last.

14 `Happy are those doing His commands (same person who said Alpha and Omega referred to SOMEONE ELSE) that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city;

You deal with it. What is insulting is the bald faced lie you declare over and over in direct contradiction to what is plainly written. Summary: What you say it says it doesn't say. It's one unbroken passage of one unbroken story and I don't care if you line up a jillion scholars who declare that "the emperor is clothed" here is what the emperor says himself:

"For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak." It's in John 12

Gonna leave in a huff again? Here is the difference between you and me. I don't sell anything nor have even a bit of personal gain from speaking.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Hebrews 1:1 says that God who at "sundry times", meaning in allotments or in sections spoke to us. IOW, He revealed Himself and things pertaining to our relationship with Him in a "piecemeal" fashion.

My post still stands in reference to His Spirit/Comforter/HolyGhost, as He is speaking of the Kingdom of God being "in us". Luke 17 states that the Kingdom comes without observation and that it lies within us.



The kingdom, peace and government lies within those who have obeyed the gospel. Nothing outside of Jesus Christ will bring us lasting peace.

We both know this is a future rule.

What is the Gospel? What did Jesus say about the Kingdom of God?

Do share. Jesus will judge, we both believe this. What did He say he will consider when those He judges stand in front of him? Some of it is in Matthew 25. There is a lot more. Line it up, text by text, then tell me is what is said here by Jesus the same gospel that is taught in your pulpits?

THEN look in a mirror and ask yourself - do I obey?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

We both know this is a future rule.

What is the Gospel? What did Jesus say about the Kingdom of God?

Do share. Jesus will judge, we both believe this. What did He say he will consider when those He judges stand in front of him? Some of it is in Matthew 25. There is a lot more. Line it up, text by text, then tell me is what is said here by Jesus the same gospel that is taught in your pulpits?

THEN look in a mirror and ask yourself - do I obey?

Matthew 25 is speaking about our expectant and vigilant attitude toward faith. That is reiterated in Hebrews 9:28 - "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

Matthew 25 doesn't take away the fact that the "kingdom" of God is within us via the Holy Spirit, and that someday when we lay aside this tabernacle (2 Pet 1:14) we will reign with him in eternity.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

That wasn't an insult.

Can you deal with the 50 or so that I referenced? No? Well, I'm not leaving over it. Guess we are back to word by word.

I proposed my argument for the question after which this thread is entitled. You responded and never once dealt with my proposition.

THE ALPHA AND OMEGA IS THE ALMIGHTY and also THE ONE WHO DIED AND IS ALIVE.

Deal with it. You can't. I'll hold your feet to the fire over this one. It is MY argument for the point of this thread. And you cannot respond to it, but tell me to respond to your issues. It;s like asking someone what sports game they favour, and then when someone tells you, you respond and talk about everything except what they provided for their answer. But somehow you are convincing yourself you avoided nothing.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

That wasn't an insult.

It sure was:

Originally Posted by WII

Seems your needle just jumps all over your record doesn't it.

Sounds like an insult to me.

Gonna leave in a huff again? Here is the difference between you and me. I don't sell anything nor have even a bit of personal gain from speaking.

Leave in a huff? lol. Talk about misrepresentation! Try, leaving because you refuse to answer my proposition.

More insulting? Ministers live of the gospel, sir. It's bible.

Now, stop hedging and deal with my answer to the thread's entire question.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I proposed my argument for the question after which this thread is entitled. You responded and never once dealt with my proposition.

THE ALPHA AND OMEGA IS THE ALMIGHTY and also THE ONE WHO DIED AND IS ALIVE.

Deal with it. You can't. I'll hold your feet to the fire over this one. It is MY argument for the point of this thread. And you cannot respond to it, but tell me to respond to your issues. It;s like asking someone what sports game they favour, and then when someone tells you, you respond and talk about everything except what they provided for their answer. But somehow you are convincing yourself you avoided nothing.

Ummmm, he did deal with that. He quoted

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Was that Jesus speaking or the angel? If Jesus then Revelation 22:9-16 appears to be Jesus speaking and saying don't worship me. If it was the angel speaking then the angel by your reasoning must be both God and Jesus as well since the angel is also the Alpha and Omega.

So your kinda backed into a corner on this one with no escape. If I was you I'd let the Alpha and Omega thing go because there's nothing good than can come of that for you.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Ummmm, he did deal with that. He quoted

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Was that Jesus speaking or the angel? If Jesus then Revelation 22:9-16 appears to be Jesus speaking and saying don't worship me. If it was the angel speaking then the angel by your reasoning must be both God and Jesus as well since the angel is also the Alpha and Omega.

So your kinda backed into a corner on this one with no escape. If I was you I'd let the Alpha and Omega thing go because there's nothing good than can come of that for you.

That is not dealing with the issue! What is it with you guys? lol

Now you are avoiding it.

I already said that Revelation 22 has a verse proving that the angel was not Jesus, but was quoting Jesus. We read that JESUS SENT HIS ANGEL.

Revelation 22:16 KJV I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

If Jesus WAS THE ANGEL, then why do we read HE SENT THE ANGEL?

Now, why would the ALPHA AND OMEGA say he is the ALMIGHTY? And then say He was dead and is alive?

Do you not believe the ALMIGHTY IS GOD?

[mfblume]

One simple point refutes all the arguments saying Jesus is not God. Jesus is ALPHA AND OMEGA who died and is alive. And the ALPHA AND OMEGA IS THE ALMIGHTY!

How can you guys be that dishonest to think you are cornering me and yet neither of you can deal with that single point? ...THE ONE POINT I made in answer to this whole issue.

One Islamic dude said I cannot use this reference in Revelation because Revelation is not part of the New Testament. lol. I told him he needs to be edumacated a bit. He knew the first chapter of Revelation showed Jesus as God. At least -- and that's a stretch -- he responded to my point.