The REAL Reason CONS have left or rarely post

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

This is absolutely true!!!! There is a HUGE difference between someone out of hand rejecting Jesus and someone who has surrendered their life to Him but who does not have a perfect understanding of the godhead. Neither Peter, Paul nor Jesus EVER condemned someone for an imperfect understanding. Jesus DID, however, say that there would be many who did miracles in HIS name and preached in HIS name who would NOT make it to heaven.

Sin disqualifies any of us, but there is a HUGE difference surrendered trinitarian and a self-righteous oneness person. In that situation, the "trinny" has a gazillion times greater chance of making it to heaven than the oneness person!

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

If you think that surrendering one's life to Jesus means nothing more than saying a prayer and continuing on in sin, then I can understand what you mean, and agree with it.

But that is not what I'm saying and you have heard me enough before that you should know better. I'm talking about people who HAVE surrendered their lives to Jesus, the real deal, no kidding, no playing, truly from their hearts. God knows when they have done this. A cute little prayer without the heart doesn't get the job done.

I mentioned a PERFECT understanding, not just understanding. NONE of us have perfect understanding. A PERFECT understanding is NOT a requirement for heaven...surrendering one's life to Jesus Christ IS.

I wonder WHICH "flavor" of oneness understanding you are referring to? There are many iterations within the oneness movement. So which one of the iterations is the REAL oneness/apostolic version and the ONLY one accepted by God?

The problem I have with this is that it handicaps the Holy Ghost as not having the power to "lead" someone into all truth. This is problematic to me when I look at men such as David Wilkerson, who by all intense purposes is probably a good man, with a good heart, doing a lot of good for drug attics and others. But yet after all these years, the Holy Ghost has yet to be able to lead him into an understanding of principle doctrines of baptism in Jesus Name. Not dogging DW. Just using him for an example.

What I find funny is that some of you that continue to believe that water baptism is not salvational, but still correct in scripture, never address the issue of the fact that some people either stop being lead by the holy ghost (LOST), or reject the correct mode of water baptism (LOST). So you are left with either a Holy Ghost that didn't do its job, or you are accepting someone as saved that has rejected the truth of the Word.


JMHO

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

Evangelist Benincasa, may I ask what then you attribute the verifiable miracles and moves of the Spirit within trinity churches, since they are not of Christ in your opinion? How do these miracles occur, since these people are none of His? I am not speaking of Bentley or Hinn, but other verified miracles which have taken place in trinitarian Pentecostal churches?

I heard just this past Thursday night a Oneness Pentecostal minister preaching at the ARC Conference talk about somethink like 44 million or 50 something million people being filled with the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues around the world.

He specifically did not mention that they were Oneness or baptized in Jesus name. He went on to mention how great it was that this many people were filled with the Holy Ghost.

I thought to myself that there are a lot of conservatives on this forum that would disagree with him as some don't believe trinitarian Pentecostal are filled with the Holy Ghost. They claim it is a "counterfeit".

I guess that is the only way they can justify to condemn trinitarians as polytheistic since obviously God's Spirit would not indwell polytheistic people.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

Evangelist Benincasa, may I ask what then you attribute the verifiable miracles and moves of the Spirit within trinity churches, since they are not of Christ in your opinion? How do these miracles occur, since these people are none of His? I am not speaking of Bentley or Hinn, but other verified miracles which have taken place in trinitarian Pentecostal churches?

Do we now validate correct doctrine according to miracles???

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

Evangelist Benincasa, may I ask what then you attribute the verifiable miracles and moves of the Spirit within trinity churches, since they are not of Christ in your opinion? How do these miracles occur, since these people are none of His? I am not speaking of Bentley or Hinn, but other verified miracles which have taken place in trinitarian Pentecostal churches?

God honours faith.

I remember when I was backslid that God could still use me, yet I wasn't on my way to Heaven.

God's favour isn't always indicative of his approval!

[CC1]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

The problem I have with this is that it handicaps the Holy Ghost as not having the power to "lead" someone into all truth. This is problematic to me when I look at men such as David Wilkerson, who by all intense purposes is probably a good man, with a good heart, doing a lot of good for drug attics and others. But yet after all these years, the Holy Ghost has yet to be able to lead him into an understanding of principle doctrines of baptism in Jesus Name. Not dogging DW. Just using him for an example.

What I find funny is that some of you that continue to believe that water baptism is not salvational, but still correct in scripture, never address the issue of the fact that some people either stop being lead by the holy ghost (LOST), or reject the correct mode of water baptism (LOST). So you are left with either a Holy Ghost that didn't do its job, or you are accepting someone as saved that has rejected the truth of the Word.


JMHO

Some people are just led very, very slowly! No different from a few Oneness Preachers who preach some ignorant things that are not supported biblically. I am not talking about standards either. I mean just those far out fringe people who preach nutty things but nothing blasphemus. I beleive they are going to heaven and can preach enough of the gospel to get people to heaven but that doesn't make their goofy non biblcal preaching correct.

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Do we now validate correct doctrine according to miracles???

Well, if these people are not of God, as so many have said, then why would God move on them to bring forth miracles, and supernatural moves in their services? Would God dwell where someone worships what some call a polytheistic god? Just a simple answer is all that is required as to why.

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by Ron

God honours faith.

I remember when I was backslid that God could still use me, yet I wasn't on my way to Heaven.

God's favour isn't always indicative of his approval!

But, according to some, their faith is not in the real Jesus. They claim the Jesus that the trinity believes is not the Jesus of the Oneness church. So, would God honor faith in a so-called false Jesus?

[Brother Price]

Remember, we are dealing with the premise that the Jesus that the trinitarian doctrine church believes in is not the Jesus we believe in. If this premise is so, why then do we have signs and wonders, miracles and supernatural tendencies occurring that are causing people to give glory to Jesus in their services and lives?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

If you think that surrendering one's life to Jesus means nothing more than saying a prayer and continuing on in sin, then I can understand what you mean, and agree with it.

I know people who are Roman Catholic, and who are Eastern Orthodox, they are committed and devoted. Their wives look like Apostolic Pentecostals, and they are committed to prayer, fasting, and living a sanctified life.
Through it all they have a doctrine which is incredibly flawed.
Those flaws will not allow them to pass go and collect the 100.00 .

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

But that is not what I'm saying and you have heard me enough before that you should know better. I'm talking about people who HAVE surrendered their lives to Jesus, the real deal, no kidding, no playing, truly from their hearts.

These individuals I have mentioned have done all the above, but they lack the truth. They need to leave the false and come into His marvelous light.

It's just that simple.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

God knows when they have done this.

God knows this and will keep calling them to move forward. It's man who fails to proceed to the next step, not God. He calls all to come and dine, to learn of Him, and to obey Mat 5:48.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

A cute little prayer without the heart doesn't get the job done.

You can pray your brains out and if you never obey to proceed forward you will never grow to maturity. If the minister never points the way and says go further the convert falls into a ditch.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I mentioned a PERFECT understanding, not just understanding. NONE of us have perfect understanding.

Sweet love of God, then I suggest you ditch the bike and sunglasses and start seeking some.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

A PERFECT understanding is NOT a requirement for heaven...surrendering one's life to Jesus Christ IS.

Sounds like double speak to me. How about teaching the people the Word and compell them to seek and search.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I wonder WHICH "flavor" of oneness understanding you are referring to? There are many iterations within the oneness movement. So which one of the iterations is the REAL oneness/apostolic version and the ONLY one accepted by God?

The one in the scriptures, and by the way Oneness means a plural working as a single unit. Let's keep it One God.


Lord bless

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by CC1

Some people are just led very, very slowly! No different from a few Oneness Preachers who preach some ignorant things that are not supported biblically. I am not talking about standards either. I mean just those far out fringe people who preach nutty things but nothing blasphemus. I beleive they are going to heaven and can preach enough of the gospel to get people to heaven but that doesn't make their goofy non biblcal preaching correct.

Give me a break CC,

Water Baptism is a "Principle doctrine". It is 1st grade material. Every "christian" faith believes this. They may not say it will save you, but I don't know any that reject it, or that would not expect a new believer to be baptized. But the one steppers here accept folks that have "been in the bright shining way" for 40 years as saved, yet in those 40 years the Holy Ghost has not seen fit to lead these folks into a new convert truth???

I am not even discussing the merits or lack of merits concerning baptism being salvational. What I am saying is that the onesteppers here on AFF give the excuse that some do not see Jesus name baptism. But that means that the Holy Ghost did not do its job in leading these folks into all truth.