Should we teach others to rebel against standards?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Biblical truth clearly doesn't matter to these men.

Sorry, but when you post stuff like this . . .



You've posted about "baptizing" using a red solo cup.

Don't lecture me about Biblical truth when you couldn't tell Biblical truth if it hit you in the face.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Sorry, but when you post stuff like this . . .


You've posted about "baptizing" using a red solo cup.

Don't lecture me about Biblical truth when you couldn't tell Biblical truth if it hit you in the face.

First, I said that if I couldn't find any other source of water, I'd baptize them with a Dixie cup if it was all I could find. lol I was only illustrating how radical I felt about baptizing someone. But feel free and run with it. You're the one distorting the point, not me. That's called a "lie". Just be mindful of that.

Second, you're only throwing up a smoke screen attack here because you don't believe in "biblical truth". Else, you'd find a beard prohibition a repugnant standard, a tradition of men, and when used to alienate the lost, a doctrine of devils.

Or... you'd show chapter and verse for the prohibition you so lovingly adore over your brethren and lay the issue to rest.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Amanah

the MWBs don't even attend church lol. And, if the beard thing was fixed to their liking, there is probably a list of lots of other things, where would it end?

Amen!!

[houston]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

What is an MWB?

Michael Wears Beard

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Brother Jonathan Alvear is one of my favorite preachers. I love the way he preaches with conviction. He is very knowledgeable of the Bible. He is, in this particular case absolutely wrong.

He is wrong historically, because old-time Pentecostal preachers typically wore beards. There have been many examples of the patriarchs of Pentecost wearing beards. Is there any question that he was wrong historically?

He is wrong scripturarally. As Michael has said, he did not quote any scripture to support the standard of being clean-shaven. The man-made standard of being clean-shaven is not supported by any scripture. In this wise it is like a lot of man-made standards in that the scripture very often undermines the standard. Sis. Alvear, Michael, Aquila, and myself have pointed out that this is the case with the beard prohibition.

I'd like to make a point about false doctrine or standards that are extra-biblical. When preachers cannot reference the Bible to support their position, they will nearly always quote other preachers. This is what 1ofthechosen did in this case. He found a preacher that agreed with his viewpoint and posted an audio of him saying what he wanted to say. It seems that if you can't quote Bible, you do the next best thing (in our eyes) and quote a preacher, preferably one who is well respected. In my opinion, this borders on idolatry, I am sure there will be some who will be happy to be indignant towards me for saying so. Aquila has referred several times to us adding to the Bible. He is right. Do we believe that the Bible is insufficient? Are we so wise in our own eyes that we believe we have a better idea? We are to be very careful about adding to or diminishing from the words of God.

Deut.4
[2] Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

People who are tempted to add to or subtract from the words of God (Have we not all been guilty of this at one time or another?), should probably examine their own heart and try to find the reason why they so badly want to change the words of God.

I respect Bro. Jonathan Alvear a lot, and I'm sure he had a lot of good things to say in this sermon, however he is teaching the tradition of men in this case. God's word is still supreme, even if I would be tempted to believe Bro. Alvear, I draw the line when he contradicts the Bible.

We've established there is 0 percent scripture here. Just as there is 0 percent scripture the other way! But historically though its a known fact, that is how it was for 50 years. Besides in certain organizations, which is fine, if you don't like it there is a place to go for you.

But all this is extra if you got a job and they told you to shave you would do it! If my God appointed Pastor preaches against something, I've learned there is a blessing in submission, even when I don't understand. They preached against it, no one told me to do anything. Nor would they, but what you preach is what you get. The Holy Ghost tells me to submit, if it's immoral I won't. But I've lived rebellious my whole life, I never did mind anyone. But God changed me, and God can change you, if you will.only let Him! End of rant..

[houston]

That’s how it was for 50 years... sets precedent for a church that is over 2,000 years old?

Ignorant.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

First, I said that if I couldn't find any other source of water, I'd baptize them with a Dixie cup if it was all I could find. lol I was only illustrating how radical I felt about baptizing someone. But feel free and run with it. You're the one distorting the point, not me. That's called a "lie". Just be mindful of that.

Is that your final answer? Because you weren't just using hyperbole. In two separate threads you promoted baptism by "pouring" instead of immersion. You even posted a pic of some house church (I don't believe it was the one you attended) which baptized by pouring. And you mentioned that more and more house churches were pouring instead of immersing.

I'll be nice and post the links so you don't have to search for them as I did:
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=176

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=179

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...00&postcount=4
"Here's my portable baptismal. It's quick, easy, costs nothing, and most already have it on hand..."

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...04&postcount=6

So again, don't lecture me about Biblical truth, when you promoted baptism by pouring and for years took your family to a non-Apostolic, trinitarian church which doesn't believe in Acts 2:38.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Second, you're only throwing up a smoke screen attack here because you don't believe in "biblical truth". Else, you'd find a beard prohibition a repugnant standard, a tradition of men, and when used to alienate the lost, a doctrine of devils.

Or... you'd show chapter and verse for the prohibition you so lovingly adore over your brethren and lay the issue to rest.

How many times must I post this: I am not against beards.

Let me post it again using big letters and color so you can read it clearly:

I AM NOT AGAINST BEARDS

Never have been. I've grown a beard out while in ministry. The church I last served in allowed MWBs in ministry and behind the pulpit.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by houston

Michael Wears Beard

I thought it was Men Wear Black.

[n david]

Must Win Battle

Motor Whale Boat

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by houston

That’s how it was for 50 years... sets precedent for a church that is over 2,000 years old?

Ignorant.

I'm talking about something that is established that way, why are you going against it. If it's a deal breaker go somewhere where it's ok. Just don't try to push your beliefs on everybody, like the sun rises and sets for you! I'm not for or against beards. But what I am against is rebellion against the Pastor, if your Pastor preaches against it just do it! Or get a new Pastor! Btw I didn't start this conversation. Go back to the beginning, this was something someone else started throwing out there.