A Monumental Problem In America:

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by TakingDominion

Wouldn't it be easier just to say, "Hey, I said something stupid. I didn't really mean it. Please forgive my foolishness."?

Also, I think you should apologize to MawMaw for belittling and patronizing her. At least, that's what I think someone with the holy ghost should do.

TD - it is not A's mode to apologize. He will either just go all in on his first statement or just disappear from the thread.
I have had him on "official" ignore for a while, guess I need to take it off and just put him on my "Bless his heart" list...

[MawMaw]

Thanks to those who have defended me. I appreciate that.
Not expecting an apology from Aquila but that doesn't bother me.
He's in my prayers.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by MawMaw

Thanks to those who have defended me. I appreciate that.
Not expecting an apology from Aquila but that doesn't bother me.
He's in my prayers.

MawMaw, I do apologize if you took any serious offense to what I wrote. I will admit that I was stern with dealing with you. Please accept my apology if I was too stern.

Please go back and try to remember exactly what you wrote to me. Here it is...

Originally Posted by MawMaw

I have wondered about you for a while, but that foolish statement
took away all doubt!

Now, that was in response to my statement here:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Anyone flying the Stars and Bars should be hung for treason.

First, I'd like to point out. My statement wasn't a personal insult targeting any specific person.

Second, I was exaggerating my disgust for those who fly the Confederate flag, praise the vision of the Confederacy, and the notion that the South will rise again.

It should be noted, on April 19, 1861, the first blood of the American Civil War was shed when a secessionist mob in Baltimore attacked Massachusetts troops (Union) bound for Washington, D.C. Four soldiers and 12 rioters were killed.

The war that followed killed more American soldiers than WWII. To parade around praising the Confederacy isn't simply a matter of banner waving. It's showing one's support for everything the Confederacy was and its vision. It is also to support the love of the Confederacy that led to the bloody civil war that followed the secessionist violence that took place on April 19th, 1861. The love of the Confederacy might also be tied to the assassination of President Abraham Lincoln, perhaps one of the greatest Presidents America has ever known.

Also, many of us in Northern states have a heritage that is rooted in the Underground Railroad, the plight of the Abolitionists, and the quest to realize a vision in which all men (and women) are both free and equal. The Confederacy is the antithesis of this. Hence my disgust.

So, I pray you understand, while my statement was an exaggeration in hyperbole, it wasn't meant to advocate the actual hanging of anyone. It was to express my utter contempt and disgust with those who have white washed and glorified the evils of the Confederacy to the point of even hoping to see it rise again through another move of secession... which will only unleash another blood bath of a civil war in our nation.

I hope that by better understanding my perspective you will see that I truly don't advocate any hangings, and that my contempt for the Confederate flag is rooted in my heritage. And with that I pray that perhaps you might forgive me if my response was rather stern.

I felt that you deserved both an apology and an explanation.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TakingDominion

Wouldn't it be easier just to say, "Hey, I said something stupid. I didn't really mean it. Please forgive my foolishness."?

Also, I think you should apologize to MawMaw for belittling and patronizing her. At least, that's what I think someone with the holy ghost should do.

If you read what she wrote, you'll note that she didn't just disagree and explain why. Nor did she ask if I were being serious. You'll also notice that she didn't even comment on the topic at all, or offer a rebuttal, as a few other brothers did (which I conceded to, by the way). Here's what she wrote:

I have wondered about you for a while, but that foolish statement took away all doubt!

Would you say that sounds pretty close to being a bit personal? If so, that's probably why my response was a bit strong. And it does surprise me that anyone would take me literally. I assure you that if I ever truly wanted to hang someone, I'd not put my intentions on the internet. I wish my kids took me this seriously when I threaten to sell them on EBay if they don't finish their chores. Lol

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Aquila

MawMaw, I do apologize if you took any serious offense to what I wrote. I will admit that I was stern with dealing with you. Please accept my apology if I was too stern.

Please go back and try to remember exactly what you wrote to me. Here it is...



Now, that was in response to my statement here:



First, I'd like to point out. My statement wasn't a personal insult targeting any specific person.

Second, I was exaggerating my disgust for those who fly the Confederate flag, praise the vision of the Confederacy, and the notion that the South will rise again.

It should be noted, on April 19, 1861, the first blood of the American Civil War was shed when a secessionist mob in Baltimore attacked Massachusetts troops (Union) bound for Washington, D.C. Four soldiers and 12 rioters were killed.

The war that followed killed more American soldiers than WWII. To parade around praising the Confederacy isn't simply a matter of banner waving. It's showing one's support for everything the Confederacy was and its vision. It is also to support the love of the Confederacy that led to the bloody civil war that followed the secessionist violence that took place on April 19th, 1861. The love of the Confederacy might also be tied to the assassination of President Abraham Lincoln, perhaps one of the greatest Presidents America has ever known.

Also, many of us in Northern states have a heritage that is rooted in the Underground Railroad, the plight of the Abolitionists, and the quest to realize a vision in which all men (and women) are both free and equal. The Confederacy is the antithesis of this. Hence my disgust.

So, I pray you understand, while my statement was an exaggeration in hyperbole, it wasn't meant to advocate the actual hanging of anyone. It was to express my utter contempt and disgust with those who have white washed and glorified the evils of the Confederacy to the point of even hoping to see it rise again through another move of secession... which will only unleash another blood bath of a civil war in our nation.

I hope that by better understanding my perspective you will see that I truly don't advocate any hangings, and that my contempt for the Confederate flag is rooted in my heritage. And with that I pray that perhaps you might forgive me if my response was rather stern.

I felt that you deserved both an apology and an explanation.

Lincoln is certainly the liberals' blind-spot. He represented predatory capitalism at its worst and went to war to force it down our throats. We all lost that war. It freed slaves and enslaved freemen.

[Originalist]

The North's true attitude about slaves and slavery stay hidden in plain sight. But until one understands it, they will never understand why it caused southerners so much resentment...


Remember all of these quotes when you see the southern States condemning the North's attitudes about slavery in their secession documents.......



Josiah Quincy, Massachusetts politician for over 50 years, spoke out in 1811 in favor of New England forming its own Confederation – in other words, he had no problem with New England seceding... Still active in 1861 he strongly supported Lincoln’s invasion of the seceding Southern states in what can only be described as an amazing turn around! Nonetheless, he was honest enough to openly admit one of the real reasons behind the North’s 30 year anti-slavery cold war against the South:

“The slave representation clause is the cause of all the difficulties we labor under…the Southern states have an influence in our national councils, altogether disproportionate to their wealth, strength and resources.”

Ohio Republican Senator John Sherman, (brother of William T. Sherman):..

“We do not like the Negroes. We do not disguise our dislike…..The whole people of the Northwestern states are opposed to having many Negroes among them and that principle or prejudice has been engraved in the legislation for nearly all of the Northwestern states.”

Republican Senator Lyon Trumbull:..

“We, the Republican Party, are the white man’s party. We are for free white men, and for making white labor respectable and honorable, which it can never be when Negro slave labor is brought into competition with it.”

William Seward, inveterate moralizer and creator of the phrase “irrepressible conflict,” who, at a political rally in 1860, described the American black man as a ......

“foreign and feeble element like the Indians, incapable of assimilation…a pitiful exotic unwisely and unnecessarily transplanted into our fields, and which it is unprofitable to cultivate at the cost of the desolation of the native vineyard.”

Senator Jefferson Davis well articulates the south's resentment at the North's anti-slavery positions....

“What do you propose, gentlemen of the free soil party?.. Do you propose to better the condition of the slave?.. Not at all... What then do you propose?.. You say you are opposed to the expansion of slavery... Is the slave to be benefited by it?.. Not at all... What then do you propose?.. It is not humanity that influences you in the position which you now occupy before the country. It is that you may have an opportunity of cheating us that you want to limit slave territory within circumscribed bounds... It is that you may have a majority in the Congress of the United States and convert the government into an engine of Northern aggrandizement... It is that your section may grow in power and prosperity upon treasures unjustly taken from the South, like the vampire bloated and gorged with the blood which it has secretly sucked from its victim... You desire to weaken the political power of the Southern states, - and why?.. Because you want, by an unjust system of legislation, to promote the industry of the New England States, at the expense of the people of the South and their industry.”

"Neither “love for the African” [witness the Northern laws against him], nor revulsion from “property in persons” [“No, you imported Africans and sold them as chattels in the slave markets”] motivated the present day agitators,"…... “No sir….the mask is off, the purpose is avowed…It is a struggle for political power."

And let’s not forget that Vice President Alexander Stephens, often cited for his “Cornerstone Speech,” had much more to say than simply “the Negro is not the equal of the white man,” (a widely held belief in white America, north and south at that time)... He also noted the following regarding the feigned Yankee sympathy for the slave:

“Their philanthropy yields to their interests... Notwithstanding their professions of humanity, they are disinclined to give up the benefits they derive from slave labor…The idea of enforcing the laws, has but one object, and that is collection of the taxes, raised by slave labor to swell the fund necessary to meet their heavy appropriations... The spoils is what they are after – though they come from the labor of the slave.”

Friends, this is what the "slavery" conflict was all about. When southerners say "slavery" was the number one reason they seceded, it is within the context of all that you see above. Tell me again why the Confederates were "evil". Tell me again why I am supposed to repudiate them.

Last edited by Originalist; 08-25-2017 at 10:18 PM.




Another writer posted this...

Students of the period who subscribe to the South being a “Slave-ocracy” will take note that in 1860, in the New Mexico Territory, an area which encompassed the area presently occupied by the States of New Mexico and Arizona, that there were a grand total of 22 slaves, only 12 of whom were actually domiciled there... If the South intended to be a “Slave Power,” spreading its labor system across the entire continent, it was doing a pretty poor job of it... Commenting on this fact, an English publication in 1861 said, '

“When, therefore, so little pains are taken to propagate slavery outside the circle of the existing slave states, it cannot be that the extension of slavery is desired by the South on social or commercial grounds directly, and still less from any love for the thing itself for its own sake... But the value of New Mexico and Arizona politically is very great!.. In the Senate they would count as 4 votes with the South or with the North according as they ranked in the category of slave holding or Free soil states”.

Times of London:

“If the Northerners on ascertaining the resolution of the South, had peaceably allowed the seceders to depart, the result might fairly have been quoted as illustrating the advantages of Democracy; but when Republicans put empire above liberty, and resorted to political oppression and war rather than suffer any abatement of national power, it was clear that nature at Washington was precisely the same as nature at St. Petersburg... There was not, in fact, a single argument advanced in defense of the war against the South which might not have been advanced with exactly the same force for the subjugation of Hungary or Poland. Democracy broke down, not when the Union ceased to be agreeable to all its constituent States, but when it was upheld, like any other Empire, by force of arms.”

At the heart of this dispute was the "Slave Power". Most would read that phrase and assume it is referring only to the political power that the slave-holding class themselves held. However, there is a deeper meaning as shown by Salmon P, Chase in 1849,

“American aristocracy is held together and made a unit, not so much by its property in slaves, as by the political power which the Constitution has deposited in their hands as the representatives of slaves. They represent their slaves. They put into the Houses of Congress, and into the Electoral College of the United States, the political power which is the exponent of their slaves; and of course, they are bound together, just as any other aristocracy could be, by the strongest of possible ties. This power then came into existence, as a distinct, independent, aristocratic power.”

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Full disclosure. Immediately after the Civil War, I would have supported hanging rebel traitors. They killed thousands of fellow Americans. But the discussion evolved into how it's debatable as to if they could be legally tried for treason. And, I acknowledged that.

As for those who are truly guilty of treason or sedition against the United States today, I feel the same.

Thank you Baron Von Munchausen. You finally admit that what you posted concerning the flag of Dixie was accurate. I'm obsessed with you? Are the other posters who respond to your ninkcompoop postings obsessed? No, we are just responding to your Bozo the clown carnival of horrors, which you feel the need to give us the guided tour. Anyone with a smidgen of God in them can't refrain from taking you to task. Why? Because you are so anti-God. What is the biggest crime? Because while being anti-God, you pose as the trembling barefoot Christian moving ever so gently hands held together in prayer. While you wear saffron leading your white bull all over the thread, you want everyone to believe that you have their best interest in mind. But you don't. You just come here to post your mayhem, watch other posters banter with you, and you laugh yourself into a coma. You should give as much effort as you do here to prayer, fasting and getting soaked in the word. That's what you said you were going to do? But alas, it was just more of your legalism.

Originally Posted by Aquila

But, when it comes down to those just waving the rebel flag, it's more hyperbole. For example, those waving am ISIS flag are also waving an enemy flag. One might say they should be hanged too. About those waving a NAZI flag, I've often said, "The only good fascist is a dead fascist." Now does that mean I'd literally kill these people? Nope. I'm only expressing my strong dislike for what they stand for.

So, when Lynyrd Skynyrd albums adorned their albums it was because they were racist? Charlie Daniels? It represents Dixie, not the skinheads, or white supremacists? You often said a good fascist is a dead fascist? Boy, I got to tell you this, you are a lousy liar. You often say the only good____ is a dead _____? Fill in the blanks, a good Italian, a good Catholic, a good Jew, a good African? Hoss, have you any lick of sense? So, if anyone filled in the blanks with Jews or blacks, we should be horrified and take them at their word...right? But if you make a stupid unchristian statement, we are to bid you God speed? Am I obsessed with you? No, I'm thoroughly disappointed with you, and cannot allow you to hold court unhindered.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Other posters understood it. She's they zeroed in on how they think the charge of treason wouldn't stand. They actually addressed the point. And if you noticed, I have the only reasoning I could see that could justify the charge of treason, and agreed that the Constitution doesn't have a legal process for secession, therefore, I concede that our appears to leave the process up to the individual states.

My dear Baron Von Munchausen, allow me to bring you back from your trip to the moon. Other posters thought you were serious. As any clear thinking human being would of. You believed that anyone flying the flag of Dixie should be hung for treason. Now, you are just continuing with you from famous "Let's Watch Aquila juggle Chainsaws while he defends one of his stupid statements"

Originally Posted by Aquila

Notice, with rational posters the conversation evolved in a civil manner, with both sides expressed, and a conclusion that is reasonable.

Aquila, but that is what you want. You want to be able to strip naked and eat waffles. We just need to smile sweetly, walking barefoot alongside you, while humbly discussing if you liked the waffle crispy, with butter? No, you are a Prophet Baal. While you dance and cut yourself, someone needs to ask you if your god is in the bathroom.

Originally Posted by Aquila

F
You're the only one sitting in a corner crying about me supposedly advocating actually hanging people.

Really? You must not be a good reader of this forum.

Originally Posted by Aquila

F
Brother, maybe if you put as much energy into your own "ministry" as you do following my every word and seeking to harass me non-stop, you'd be too busy with souls than to worry about harassing little old me. Lol

Bro, you fill this forum with hot spewing liberal mess. I mean, even liberals can't immagine how whacky you are. Allowing you to hold court unhindered, would be sad.

Originally Posted by Aquila

F
Frankly, I think you look irrationally obsessed with me. This place isn't helping YOU. You're the "evangelist". I'm just an average Joe sharing an opinion. Lol

Bro, irrational? Wanting to see people hung for treason because they fly the flag of Dixie? That's irrational.

This forum is the worse place for you. You were the one who said you were going to dedicate yourself some time to pray, fast, and get soaked in the word. You said that, but you refuse to follow through. That is because you never follow through. Talk is cheap, and that's why you talk. You're idea of an evangelist is someone who stops by a church to sell neck ties in the hallway. Preach a sweet love message and drive off in the Winnebago. But what you don't understand is that Jonah went to people who were messed up and told them to repent in sackcloth and ashes. They did. You on the other hand would of told Jonah to go back and find his whale cruiseliner.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Here's another opinion, just for you EB...

People who put ketchup on steak should be drawn and quartered.

EB, quick, come put an end to my maddening reign of terror! Lol

Bro, you should of quit while you are ahead.

Can you ever just say "Oh, I'm sorry, that was really stupid of me to say that."

If you said people who put ketchup on steak should be drawn and quartered . Everyone would think you didn't like ketchup on steak. That everyone in the free thinking would would take as a hyperbole. No foul, and we move on. But, we aren't discussing cuisine. We are discussing a very radioactive topic concerning the South, her heritage, and the flag of Dixie. Yet, you made a stupid statement. In any number of southern diners across the south, that statement would of earned you a severe beating. Or the waitress taking your grits back to the cook for them to add a little something to them. Listen, you just said that to glean a reaction. Because that's all you do here.

Again, if you told everyone you liked to strangle chickens, and someone asked if you also like to strangle roosters? And you said YES!

Then that pretty much seals the deal.

You put no LOL at the end of your yes, indicating you were kidding.

Aquila you are a mess.

Jesus is the only way out.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

If you read what she wrote, you'll note that she didn't just disagree and explain why. Nor did she ask if I were being serious. You'll also notice that she didn't even comment on the topic at all, or offer a rebuttal, as a few other brothers did (which I conceded to, by the way). Here's what she wrote:



Would you say that sounds pretty close to being a bit personal? If so, that's probably why my response was a bit strong. And it does surprise me that anyone would take me literally. I assure you that if I ever truly wanted to hang someone, I'd not put my intentions on the internet. I wish my kids took me this seriously when I threaten to sell them on EBay if they don't finish their chores. Lol

That's why you were a bit strong? Bro, she told you how the cow ate the cabbage. You didn't like it, so you went after her. TD is totally correct, you should of just posted that you said something stupid and you were sorry. ut that would be lying. Because you aren't sorry to MawMaw, or to anyone else.

Again, if you said that you love to strangle chickens, and someone asks if you would also strangle roosters? Then you post YES.

You have confirmed the validity of your original statement.

No one should ever take you serious.

Because you aren't.

You are a figment.

May the day come when you want Jesus Christ and His Gospel, worse than the breath of life.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

MawMaw, I do apologize if you took any serious offense to what I wrote. I will admit that I was stern with dealing with you. Please accept my apology if I was too stern.

What? Chris, you can't even make up your mind while you give an apology?
Gotta hand it to you people who apologize while putting it all on the person they offended. You must of been tutored by Hillary Clinton. Being stern is what you are being sorry for, correct? But too stern is determined by the party who was offended, so you being stern is ok. It is being too stern which would be laid on the lap of the offended. Right on, Baron Von Munchausen, you are the winner once again.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Please go back and try to remember exactly what you wrote to me. Here it is...

It is actually a modification of Proverbs 17:28. It was a quote attributed to Mark Twain "better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt." MawMaw sounded a bit amazed at your if you fly the flag of Dixie you should be hung for treason statement. So, here statement was a needful one. You got upset, and instead of going wee wee wee all the way home, you got kurt with MawMaw.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Now, that was in response to my statement here:

Does it get any better the second time you post it?

Originally Posted by Aquila

First, I'd like to point out. My statement wasn't a personal insult targeting any specific person.

How sorry a statement.

Boy, you just can't admit it. The specific person IS ANYONE who flies the flag. Hence the reason why Originalist asked what about African Americans who would fly the flag. It which you responded with a rousing YES. Bro, you don't even need to be sitting under hot lights, this is vividly apparent. But you got to win, that's all that matters you.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Second, I was exaggerating my disgust for those who fly the Confederate flag, praise the vision of the Confederacy, and the notion that the South will rise again.

Originally Posted by Aquila

First, I'd like to point out. My statement wasn't a personal insult targeting any specific person.

Chris, find the woodshed, pray, fast, and get soaked in the word. This isn't working for you.

Originally Posted by Aquila

It should be noted,

That everything for you is the kill. You have to be the winner. You have to watch people squirm as you make statements that would make the devil shake his head.

Originally Posted by Aquila

So, I pray you understand, while my statement was an exaggeration in hyperbole, it wasn't meant to advocate the actual hanging of anyone. It was to express my utter contempt and disgust with those who have white washed and glorified the evils of the Confederacy to the point of even hoping to see it rise again through another move of secession... which will only unleash another blood bath of a civil war in our nation.

I hope that by better understanding my perspective you will see that I truly don't advocate any hangings, and that my contempt for the Confederate flag is rooted in my heritage. And with that I pray that perhaps you might forgive me if my response was rather stern.

I felt that you deserved both an apology and an explanation.

When Hillary runs in 2020 you should get the job as the Clinton's press secretary.