They are only elite in their own eyes. Many of the things that happen in the lives of preachers are because they consider themselves to be on a pedestal, and that they have a higher God-given calling than anyone else. Those in music ministry, Christian Education, and even counseling have always been put down, underpaid, and ignored because it is all about the Pastor/preacher.
It is sad that the only goals men and women have in Pentecost is to be a preacher or a preacher's wife. Without that 'authority' they have no place/identity within our ranks. The only boost up the rungs of Pentecost is to be related to someone in a political position or that Pastors a mega assembly so they have some credibility.
Analolgy: Our Pentecostal society has become as classless as our American society. We have the 'have's', i.e., those with multigenerational names/heritage, political clout, positions the consider to be influential [the rich], and the 'have not's' ,i.e, those who have publically fallen and won't be allowed back up, those who are 'yes people' to those that HAVE, those that struggle to be used and accepted and paid for their helping ministries at the mercy of those who get paid for their ministry and want the division of authority to always be in their favor[the poor].
We have two forums because there is a distinct difference in those who think they have all the answers, power, and authority...and those who would question this paradigm are 'liberals', people who are real with real problems, and those who wish they were as the other forum in significance.
Come on Mark, the more things change - the more they stay the same.
Get real here: Pastors and preachers can't make it without the support of the praise teams, ministers of music, and the sunday school teachers, the outreach co-ordinators, the counselors, the church maintenance and janitors...just like those in the helps positions have no place to help if they don't have a Pastor preacher.
Biblically...we are all members of the same body with different functions. Jesus Christ is the heart, the life blood of the church - not the preacher/preachers. The preacher makes up the mouth piece and a portion of the brain, and the other leaders make up the other parts of the brain, and then we have the neurotransmitters that relay messages, and the arteries which flow through the body with the capillaries taking blood and ozygen to the extemities. We might thing we can live without the tonsils or the spleen, one of the fingers, toes, and ears...but how much better and functional a person is with all things working in unison and together. None thinking they are more 'important' than the other.
It is sad indeed that we teach our children the only way you can have a place in ministry is to be born into it or be related, or grafted in by some unforseen backhanded inheritance gifting after paying the 'dues' and submitting to those who are the "have's".
Sorry about my intensity...been up half the night thinking about Sarah & Abraham and how their trying to work things out their own ...brought us Hagar and Ishmael and a lifetime of fallout!
Rhoni
And then there are many that are NOT like that, and I know of several myself.
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If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
And then there are many that are NOT like that, and I know of several myself.
I guess it's whether you are part of the "IN" crowd or the "out" crowd, or just part of the "body of Christ" that isn't so well noticed.....still need, but....your just not "popular" enough......
but thank God, because of the prayers of saints, this above, stated by Sister Rhoni is becoming less the norm....
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Rom.8:38,39-For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither heigth nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to seperate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Not to mention that had we deleted it the responses we'd get:
What happened to Mark's post?
Are you protecting Boom?
Are you protecting Mark?
Are you trying to hide something?
Once the cat is out of the bag, it's a NO WIN situation for the admin team! They get hammered for however the decide to handle it! Sometimes I feel for you guys!
__________________ Words: For when an emoticon just isn't enough.
what I meant is this. It is mainstream thought amongst
preachers that musicians are much lower on the scale
then they are.In general, we have always been frowned
upon and that's just the way it is. It is also true that
the preachers on the other forums think that their forums
are much better and on a higher scale then AFF. AFF is
for the lowly. I guess I'm in the lowly class because i'm
not allowed to fellowship with the other elite groups
Mark, as a musician and a preacher, I do not subscribe to that way of thought , and the people I associate with are not that way. There are too many preachers who don't even make an attempt to be a servant like Jesus was. The elitist attitude is a big turn-off and I could not associate with preachers like that in real life or on a forum.
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There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Once the cat is out of the bag, it's a NO WIN situation for the admin team! They get hammered for however the decide to handle it! Sometimes I feel for you guys!
Yep - no win is right.
Just like Mike said you can't unbutter bread.
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Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
Bro. Epley, I'm glad that you realize that it is not my nature to insult anyone, especially you! I will rise up when I see someone unfairly being critical of another. That being said, I was wrong for writing a post in haste right before I retired for the night, and not reading it carefully before I hit "send". When I said "outmanned", I meant number wise, not intellect wise!
As far as respect, I respect you probably more than any other ultra-con on this board because you're constant and unwavering in your message. With that, you try to be as least offensive if possible, knowing the results of your opinions.
The last thing I want to do is offend you, Bro. Epley. Please forgive me!
__________________ Words: For when an emoticon just isn't enough.
If anything is balanced around here it is some of the posts that should never be posted.
Once again, as diverse as this forum is it will never be perfect or please everyone.
I don't understand why there cannot be dialouge without nastiness? Sarcasm yes, being pointed yes. But personal attacks for the sake of nastiness? No.
In heated discussions it is easy to the line but crossing the line for the sake of being rude and ugly?
I don't understand why there cannot be dialouge without nastiness? Sarcasm yes, being pointed yes. But personal attacks for the sake of nastiness? No.
In heated discussions it is easy to the line but crossing the line for the sake of being rude and ugly?
You are right on the money. These are my sentiments also.
The insults are pointless and counter productive as all they do is drive people away.
Civilized dialogue should be the goal.
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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