Celebrity Preachers

[ReformedDave]

All this 'money' talk is so silly.

I'm reminded of a minister who, while driving thru the country side in Scotland, stopped in a very small country church for Sunday service and was surprised to hear Martyn Lloyd-Jones, the most prominent Evangelical preacher in Europe at that time, preaching to an audience of 12! He said he preached with the same care and passion as he did in his church of 3000.

That's a true minister.

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

All this 'money' talk is so silly.

I'm reminded of a minister who, while driving thru the country side in Scotland, stopped in a very small country church for Sunday service and was surprised to hear Martyn Lloyd-Jones, the most prominent Evangelical preacher in Europe at that time, preaching to an audience of 12! He said he preached with the same care and passion as he did in his church of 3000.

That's a true minister.

I'm with Reformed Dave.

This talk of $2500 per night preachers, and trying to make it sound spiritual, makes me feel sick in the pit of my stomach.

Anybody looking for wisdom in this thread should read Bro. Epley's posts.

[deacon blues]

$2500 for a week's preaching at a camp meeting is not excessive, but I thought what was stated was $2500 A NIGHT. $2500 per week is reasonable, not $2500 a night.

I appreciate your experiences, St. Matt. But my perspective also was that my dad was a working man for 45 years and faithfully gave to church and paid his tithes. When all was said and done the pastor lives lavishly (not just nice things, I mean like 4 homes, 5 vehicles, month long vacations, etc) while the rest of the church had to fund raise for any extras. When the man retired he left the church virtually penniless (compared to what should have been there).

I'm all for the preacher being able to make a living, to have some comforts, to have opportunity for a better standard of living. But to be one of the richest guys in town? NO, its just flat wrong.

Go sell something, start a business, invest in the market, but don't do it on the backs of hard earned tithe money if in the end all you do is take care of #1.

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Go sell something, start a business, invest in the market, but don't do it on the backs of hard earned tithe money if in the end all you do is take care of #1.

D'oh!

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

I'm with Reformed Dave.

This talk of $2500 per night preachers, and trying to make it sound spiritual, makes me feel sick in the pit of my stomach.

Anybody looking for wisdom in this thread should read Bro. Epley's posts.

Maple Leaf,

I am not talking about $2500 a night preachers.. I am talking about $2500 a night blessing! If a man expects it he is not worthy of it nor blessed by it. It truly is more blessed to give than to receive.

I think there are conflicting perspectives at work here. I disdain the hireling as much as anyone but I also respect the blesser more than all! I desire to bless the Lord, my family, my pastor, my church, my community and all with whom I come in contact. That is not limited to monetary blessing but neither is monetary blessing excluded.

Originally Posted by philjones

Maple Leaf,

I am not talking about $2500 a night preachers.. I am talking about $2500 a night blessing! If a man expects it he is not worthy of it nor blessed by it. It truly is more blessed to give than to receive.

I think there are conflicting perspectives at work here. I disdain the hireling as much as anyone but I also respect the blesser more than all! I to bless the Lord, my family, my pastor, my church, my community and all with whom I come in contact. That is not limited to monetary blessing but neither is monetary blessing excluded.

See Maple Leaf...

This is true wisdom here....

God bless my friend, bro. Phil.

Originally Posted by deacon blues

$2500 for a week's preaching at a camp meeting is not excessive, but I thought what was stated was $2500 A NIGHT. $2500 per week is reasonable, not $2500 a night.

I appreciate your experiences, St. Matt. But my perspective also was that my dad was a working man for 45 years and faithfully gave to church and paid his tithes. When all was said and done the pastor lives lavishly (not just nice things, I mean like 4 homes, 5 vehicles, month long vacations, etc) while the rest of the church had to fund raise for any extras. When the man retired he left the church virtually penniless (compared to what should have been there).

I'm all for the preacher being able to make a living, to have some comforts, to have opportunity for a better standard of living. But to be one of the richest guys in town? NO, its just flat wrong.

Go sell something, start a business, invest in the market, but don't do it on the backs of hard earned tithe money if in the end all you do is take care of #1.

Deacon,

A couple of things. Your dad did not have a pastor... what he had I do not know but a true shephard would NEVER do what you have described here. More than likely he didn't make hospital visits or visit the elderly or the orphans either. Sad! I am sorry for your experience and that of your dad, except that I am sure it has made you more aware of your responsibility and the true purpose of your call.

That said, your last line is a bit problematic for me. I know several UC preachers who get sent down the river by MANY for doing exactly as you have asked. They are then accused of doing it on the back of the church because they believe in the principle of the tithe being for the ministry. Further, if their business dealings are discovered, they are excoriated because they are too focused on this life and not busy about heavenly things.

Maybe all preachers should take the Catholic oath of poverty and that would keep everyone happy... of course, they would also have to take the oath of celibacy because ain't no OP woman going to marry a man who has taken a vow guaranteeing she will be poor always.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by philjones

Deacon,

A couple of things. Your dad did not have a pastor... what he had I do not know but a true shephard would NEVER do what you have described here. More than likely he didn't make hospital visits or visit the elderly or the orphans either. Sad! I am sorry for your experience and that of your dad, except that I am sure it has made you more aware of your responsibility and the true purpose of your call.

That said, your last line is a bit problematic for me. I know several UC preachers who get sent down the river by MANY for doing exactly as you have asked. They are then accused of doing it on the back of the church because they believe in the principle of the tithe being for the ministry. Further, if their business dealings are discovered, they are excoriated because they are too focused on this life and not busy about heavenly things.

Maybe all preachers should take the Catholic oath of poverty and that would keep everyone happy... of course, they would also have to take the oath of celibacy because ain't no OP woman going to marry a man who has taken a vow guaranteeing she will be poor always.

While I believe that the minister is worthy of his reward I also know that many are receiving what they are not worthy of. This celebrity mentality is ruining the Christian 'scene'.

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

While I believe that the minister is worthy of his reward I also know that many are receiving what they are not worthy of. This celebrity mentality is ruining the Christian 'scene'.

I would not be a party to the "celebrity" mentality. The spirit of blessing is not a part of that either, unless it is corrupted. I've seen that too.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by philjones

Deacon,

A couple of things. Your dad did not have a pastor... what he had I do not know but a true shephard would NEVER do what you have described here. More than likely he didn't make hospital visits or visit the elderly or the orphans either. Sad! I am sorry for your experience and that of your dad, except that I am sure it has made you more aware of your responsibility and the true purpose of your call.

That said, your last line is a bit problematic for me. I know several UC preachers who get sent down the river by MANY for doing exactly as you have asked. They are then accused of doing it on the back of the church because they believe in the principle of the tithe being for the ministry. Further, if their business dealings are discovered, they are excoriated because they are too focused on this life and not busy about heavenly things.

Maybe all preachers should take the Catholic oath of poverty and that would keep everyone happy... of course, they would also have to take the oath of celibacy because ain't no OP woman going to marry a man who has taken a vow guaranteeing she will be poor always.

HA-HA!!!

Well all that being said, the man had good qualities too. His ministry was not without successes. Unfortunately the first thing people think of when he comes up is "He's Filthy Rich".

If a pastor, with the income he makes is able to make his personal wealth grow through outside sources, I have no problem with. I still think it can send the wrong message if the man lives to a point of extravagence. As a "man of God" there is a different standard he must live by (DID I SAY STANDARD?).

We often hear how the man of God has to live by convictions that are above the people in order to keep the people living by a higher standard. If that is the case then we can't turn around and say, "Nobody criticizes the Apostolic plumber for making a bunch of money. Nobody criticizes the Apostolic business owner of if he drives a $60,000 car." Well, that's because the expectations of a pastor and a lay man are different. If a preacher doesn't know that, then maybe he needs to think about a different career. You can't have it both ways.

Also, its one thing for a preacher to invest in the stock market and do well. Its another thing for a preacher to spend lots of time investing in businesses that require a lot of his time and effort and attention. If it s something he can do on the side without much distraction, I don't have a problem with. But if the guy neglects his duties in serving the saints, I have a problem with it.