The Office of Pastor - Page 10

Neck · #91 01-13-2009, 04:41 PM

The thing about the 5 fold ministry active in the church today.

Many have focused on the word "fold".

And that is exactly what they have done "folded up some of the 5".

Digging4Truth · #92 01-13-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neck

The thing about the 5 fold ministry active in the church today.

Many have focused on the word "fold".

And that is exactly what they have done "folded up some of the 5".

LOL...

Touche' Brother Eck... Touche'

rava61 · #93 01-14-2009, 06:40 AM

This is a 'questionable' office in knowing exactly what was intended for the church as a whole. There certainly has been a lot of activity over the years that has caused serious doubt to the followers of Christ because of men and women abusing this position: and this has not been limited to only the Apostolic Faith.

It would be good to look at this subject further to see what we come up with. One thing for sure I absolutely do not 'buy into the idea or doctrine' that you cannot make it to heaven without a Pastor as most of the Apostolics have proclaimed for years: I think that is a control and manipulation tool that has been passed on for a long time without Biblical backing.

RV

tbpew · #94 01-14-2009, 08:13 AM

IMO,

Called out ones who want a King besides their Lord and Saviour will be given abundantly plentiful occassions to raise one up or find one.

Saints who are mindful and watchful for the gifted bondservants that God has provided to build-up their holy faith, will benefit in service to their own calling and election. Every saint must consider and qualify the spirit of any guide that enters their life along their own journey, as they press toward the mark of our high callling from God in Christ Jesus.

Withdrawn · #95 01-14-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbpew

IMO,

Called out ones who want a King besides their Lord and Saviour will be given abundantly plentiful occassions to raise one up or find one.

YUP!

mizpeh · #96 01-14-2009, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

What is the modern day Apostolic church's stance on calling people apostles tho?

I thought it would be the same criteria that Paul said of himself....Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds. 2 Cor 12:12

Michael Phelps · #97 01-14-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I thought it would be the same criteria that Paul said of himself....Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds. 2 Cor 12:12

What are the signs of an apostle?

Digging4Truth · #98 01-14-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I thought it would be the same criteria that Paul said of himself....Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds. 2 Cor 12:12

Well... 2 things.

1. That is kind of vague. There is no definition of what they are talking about by signs, wonders & mighty deeds. We do know what patience is though. That is a good sigh.

2. Signs shall follow those who believe. So... according to this scripture... it seems apparent that signs followed the apostles as well. Were they different than the signs that followed those who believed? And, again, this scripture recognizes that signs were present to show his apostleship... but signs were also present for believers... This doesn't do anything to help us understand exactly what an apostle did though...

We still don't see what an apostle did... we only see that certain signs followed... but signs followed every believer.

It is a good scripture but it is nondescript and vague to the point of accomplishing nothing as far as learning what made an apostle an apostle.

mizpeh · #99 01-14-2009, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rava61

This is a 'questionable' office in knowing exactly what was intended for the church as a whole. There certainly has been a lot of activity over the years that has caused serious doubt to the followers of Christ because of men and women abusing this position: and this has not been limited to only the Apostolic Faith.

It would be good to look at this subject further to see what we come up with. One thing for sure I absolutely do not 'buy into the idea or doctrine' that you cannot make it to heaven without a Pastor as most of the Apostolics have proclaimed for years: I think that is a control and manipulation tool that has been passed on for a long time without Biblical backing.

RV

The bottom line is that we all are to be in subjection one to another, even the pastor. Those who want to rule over God's heritage must become servants not lords and lead by example. But my concern in what you are saying is that it seems you do away with the whole idea of there being a "body of Christ" and differing gifts that God gives to each member of the body. "And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you." 1 Cor 12:21

Eph 4:11-12 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Can we be perfected without those saints whom God has given gifts which involve some type of leadership? Paul told Timothy (an evangelist) to...Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. Paul also seemed to think that part of his ministry as an apostle was to do likewise.

I would say the ministry of a pastor is to feed and care for the sheep.

mizpeh · #**100** 01-14-2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Well... 2 things.

1. That is kind of vague. There is no definition of what they are talking about by signs, wonders & mighty deeds. We do know what patience is though. That is a good sigh.

2. Signs shall follow those who believe. So... according to this scripture... it seems apparent that signs followed the apostles as well. Were they different than the signs that followed those who believed? And, again, this scripture recognizes that signs were present to show his apostleship... but signs were also present for believers... This doesn't do anything to help us understand exactly what an apostle did though...

We still don't see what an apostle did... we only see that certain signs followed... but signs followed every believer.

It is a good scripture but it is nondescript and vague to the point of accomplishing nothing as far as learning what made an apostle an apostle.

Those are the things Paul points to as being signs of an apostle.

Chronicle the life of Paul...what he did, what he said, how he lived...(that would fill in the rest of your blanks) is the life of an apostle, an apostle with a certain call to be an example of suffering for Christ and to preach to the Gentiles. Not every apostle was called to the same thing. Peter was married and his call was to minister to the Jews. But the common thread of being an apostle would be what is found in that verse.