Moses was unfaithful when called

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

votive soul: I appreciate your efforts to educate me on the use of quoting. I've searched for what you call 'go advanced panel' but don't see it anywhere. How do I find it? - Don

Don do this as a practice exercise

Reply to this thread and then type:

[Quote.] this is a test [/quote.]

But leave out the periods I've included to facilitate the practice exercise

You will also need to have text in addition to, but outside of, the above test line or you will get an error message.

And then of course actually reply.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The circumcision of the heart involves the putting off the body of sins, which is part of what happens in baptism when sins are washed away. Notice also "ye are circumcised" (present tense reality) "buried with him in baptism" (past tense event). This indicates that the past event is the baptism, and the ongoing present reality is the circumcision (of the heart). Which in turn indicates the baptism precedes the circumcision in logical order. Meaning, again, that circumcision of the heart occurs in and as a result of baptism.

For what its worth: The following partially disagrees with your statement. This "buried with him in baptism" could also be construed as present tense reality in English. A check of the greek should be done. 'ye are circumcised', v11, is in "Verb - Aorist Passive Indicative - 2nd Person Plural" form, which indicates an action that was completed in the past, happened to a group of people, and had no connection to the present. 'Buried with', v12, is in the "Verb - Second Aorist Passive Participle - Nominative Plural Masculine" form, which indicates multiple men who experienced a completed action in the past
The source for this info is Blue Letter Bible web site.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Still haven't learned to quote. Sorry. Till then...

Joshua 5:6-9 KJV
For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the LORD: unto whom the LORD sware that he would not shew them the land, which the LORD sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey. [7] And their children, whom he raised up in their stead, them Joshua circumcised: for they were uncircumcised, because they had not circumcised them by the way. [8] And it came to pass, when they had done circumcising all the people, that they abode in their places in the camp, till they were whole. [9] And the LORD said unto Joshua, This day have I rolled away the reproach of Egypt from off you. Wherefore the name of the place is called Gilgal unto this day.

The reproach of Egypt was not rolled away off of Israel until they were circumcised (obedience was completed). Not wanting to stray too far from the topic, yet wanting to know about the reproach of Egypt, I ask your definition or your answer to what the reproach of Egypt is.

They passed through the Jordan (like as their parents crossed the Red Sea), which is emblematic of baptism. The immediate result of this symbolic baptism is circumcision. After circumcision they ate the Passover. And then began the conquest of the promised land.

Showing:

1. God calls a person out of their Egyptian bondage to sin and the world.
2. God expects them to publicly identify with Him via baptism.
3. This baptism must be real, it cannot just be an outward ceremonial act, but must be accompanied with a circumcision of the heart.
4. Only then can one eat the Passover (eat the flesh of Jesus, ie participate in and receive the benefits of His Life and Death).
5. Only then can entrance to the promised land (of eternal life) begin in earnest.

Note: They were called, crossed the Jordan, then were circumcised, then ate the Passover. They were not called, circumcised, then crossed the Jordan, nor were they called, ate the Passover, were circumcised, then crossed the Jordan. Thus the antibaptism errorists are incorrect when asserting that baptism comes AFTER regeneration, or AFTER remission of sins. Remission (rolling away the reproach of Egypt) comes AFTER baptism and the circumcision of the heart. And baptism without circumcision of the heart is pointless.

And interestingly, circumcision happens AFTER crossing the Jordan, indicating that circumcision of the heart is effected in and by and is a result of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. Rather than the idea that baptism is an outward sign of an already occurred circumcision of the heart.

Colossians 2:9-12 KJV
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. [10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: [11] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: [12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And so we have two types of water baptism - Jordan River crossing and circumcision. One happens as they enter and the other happens after they enter. Confusing, don't you think?

Perhaps another view of the situation is needed to clarify the confusion.

When did Israel first cross into the promised land? It may have been after they crossed onto the land given on the east of Jordan to Manasseh, Reuben and Gad. Traditionally its been thought when crossing the Jordan R because of what is clearly written in Joshua.

When the waters of the Jordan stopped, they stopped at a place (Jos3.16, Adam) much further upstream from their location, quite dissimilar to the Red Sea crossing where the waters were as a wall on either side. Historians tell us the waters may have been stopped by a landslide (which has also occurred at other times) blocking the Jordan. Thus the Lord arranged for a miracle landslide at just the right moment.

The reality of the situation then is that water is nowhere near the point of crossing. No water - no baptism type. This leaves us with only circumcision as the type of water baptism, eliminating the double confusing types of baptism. What is your thought on this?

.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Please learn to format your posts correctly.

Will do, and then will you answer the question posed? Is that what you say?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Good grief

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Don do this as a practice exercise

Reply to this thread and then type:

[Quote.] this is a test [/quote.]

But leave out the periods I've included to facilitate the practice exercise

You will also need to have text in addition to, but outside of, the above test line or you will get an error message.

And then of course actually reply.

I'm on strike till Don learns to quote

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Don do this as a practice exercise

Reply to this thread and then type:

[Quote.] this is a test [/quote.]

But leave out the periods I've included to facilitate the practice exercise

You will also need to have text in addition to, but outside of, the above test line or you will get an error message.

And then of course actually reply.

this is a test

Thx so much for this, Amanah. And what is the 'go advanced panel' votivesoul refers to?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

Thx so much for this, Amanah. And what is the 'go advanced panel' votivesoul refers to?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I'm on strike till Don learns to quote

It would make it easy to hold some sort of discussion.

Don isn’t very accommodating to others.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

For what its worth: The following partially disagrees with your statement. This "buried with him in baptism" could also be construed as present tense reality in English. A check of the greek should be done. 'ye are circumcised', v11, is in "Verb - Aorist Passive Indicative - 2nd Person Plural" form, which indicates an action that was completed in the past, happened to a group of people, and had no connection to the present. 'Buried with', v12, is in the "Verb - Second Aorist Passive Participle - Nominative Plural Masculine" form, which indicates multiple men who experienced a completed action in the past
The source for this info is Blue Letter Bible web site.

"A completed action in the past." Is that not what I said?