Moses was unfaithful when called

[donfriesen1]

In Ex3,4 God calls and miracle-equips Moses for the Exodus ministry, but then attempts to kill him as he journeys to fulfill his calling. And why? Ex4.26 because of the circumcision. Moses hadn't been faithful/obedient to the Covenant requirements God established with Abraham. This shows us: God may call and equip for ministry those who are not faithful, yet expecting their future obedience to Covenant requirements, at their peril. This contradicts thought which says only the faithful should be considered for ministry, when the opposite is shown here in the Book. Would this kind of wisdom of God be questioned by Man? It is not surprising then to see many called to ministry today, doing miracles yet not obedient to NT Covenant requirements (as Moses had done before he was faithful to the Covenant). Lesson to be learned: Doing miracles does not testify that everything preached/believed by the miracle worker is truth.

In Col2.11,12 Paul compares the circumcision of the heart (being buried with Jesus in water baptism) with fleshly circumcision, insinuating that the heart circumcision was the NT equivalent to the OT sign of circumcision. Moses's experience of doing miracles before he was faithful/obedient to the covenant answers the question: 'Why are there people who reject scriptural baptism/truth powerfully used in ministry?' Answer: God places as much trust in Man, perhaps more, than Man places in him, calling and equipping for ministry some who are not faithful to the NT covenant, hoping for their future obedience. What an astounding grace God shows, who grants such gifts with such a trust in Man! Many a Man today might not do the same. Does the Lord demonstrate to us there may be a time to be as trusting in others as he was with unfaithful/unobedient Moses? If nothing else it demonstrates a need to be prayerful in any decisions made, trusting in the Lord's wisdom and guidance, and not in our own wisdom, which is likely not the same as his.

[Amanah]

Hi Don!
Are you saying that unfaithful disobedient people can be appointed to ministry? Not sure what you mean.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Hi Don!
Are you saying that unfaithful disobedient people can be appointed to ministry? Not sure what you mean.

Hi, Amanah.

Reading Ex3,4 would answer that question with a yes. Its against my theology but I can't argue with the Word.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

In Ex3,4 God calls and miracle-equips Moses for the Exodus ministry, but then attempts to kill him as he journeys to fulfill his calling. And why? Ex4.26 because of the circumcision. Moses hadn't been faithful/obedient to the Covenant requirements God established with Abraham. This shows us: God may call and equip for ministry those who are not faithful, yet expecting their future obedience to Covenant requirements, at their peril. This contradicts thought which says only the faithful should be considered for ministry, when the opposite is shown here in the Book. Would this kind of wisdom of God be questioned by Man? It is not surprising then to see many called to ministry today, doing miracles yet not obedient to NT Covenant requirements (as Moses had done before he was faithful to the Covenant). Lesson to be learned: Doing miracles does not testify that everything preached/believed by the miracle worker is truth.

In Col2.11,12 Paul compares the circumcision of the heart (being buried with Jesus in water baptism) with fleshly circumcision, insinuating that the heart circumcision was the NT equivalent to the OT sign of circumcision. Moses's experience of doing miracles before he was faithful/obedient to the covenant answers the question: 'Why are there people who reject scriptural baptism/truth powerfully used in ministry?' Answer: God places as much trust in Man, perhaps more, than Man places in him, calling and equipping for ministry some who are not faithful to the NT covenant, hoping for their future obedience. What an astounding grace God shows, who grants such gifts with such a trust in Man! Many a Man today might not do the same. Does the Lord demonstrate to us there may be a time to be as trusting in others as he was with unfaithful/unobedient Moses? If nothing else it demonstrates a need to be prayerful in any decisions made, trusting in the Lord's wisdom and guidance, and not in our own wisdom, which is likely not the same as his.

So how does this apply to today’s church?

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So how does this apply to today’s church?

The Lord will in his wisdom decide how he wants to apply this today, as he had done with choosing a disobedient Exodus leader. That he has done something similar today is evident from the testimonies of miracles from many ministers who reject Jesus name baptism. Don't miss the point that it was God, not Man, who called Moses, even while knowing that he had not been obedient to the covenant. Also true is that it is God who performs the miracles at the hands of those who reject Jesus name baptism. The Lord will continue to do what he thinks is best even while contradicting our theological (mis)understandings of it. God wants all to respond to the command for Jesus name baptism. Any who refuse do so, do so at their own peril, but may not prevent them from performing miracles. The story of Moses's experience should be shared with those miracle workers who assume that because they perform miracles they think their erroneous baptism theology (among other false doctrines) must be acceptable. The Bible shows us that Moses performed miracles while disobedient, even as these do. Thus, miracles do not necessarily testify to the validity of held doctrines of the miracle worker, nor necessarily of the character of the one used to perform them. The Moses story and today's non-Jesus name baptism miracle workers shows God's great trust and grace as placed in Man.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

The Moses story and today's non-Jesus name baptism miracle workers shows God's great trust and grace as placed in Man.

Seems to me the Moses story shows people called by God to ministry better dot their I's and cross their T's and get it right.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Seems to me the Moses story shows people called by God to ministry better dot their I's and cross their T's and get it right.

He was called to the ministry of delivering Israel and receiving the law of the Kingdom, but couldn't perform his ministry until he obeyed by circumcising his son?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

The Lord will in his wisdom decide how he wants to apply this today, as he had done with choosing a disobedient Exodus leader.

This is a nonanswer. Please allow me to offer you the definition of the word "nonanswer." A nonanswer is a response that is unsatisfactory, uninformative, or fails to address the subject of a question. For example, "Because I felt it was time that I left" is a nonanswer to the question "Why did I leave?" Why aren't rainbow colored unicorns in South Florida? That also can be answered with "The Lord will in his wisdom decide how he wants to apply this today, as he had done with choosing a disobedient Exodus leader. "

You obviously can't answer the question intelligently. For the simple reason, like your other teaching, this one also is flawed.

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

That he has done something similar today is evident from the testimonies of miracles from many ministers who reject Jesus name baptism.

We covered something similar in another thread. A poster brought up the idea, that the supernatural is through obedience. Here, you are claiming the opposite. The supernatural is through disobedience. Both ideas are flawed. Due to the fact that the Bible teaches that there is only one correct way, obedience to God's will and word. This is the correct way, walk ye in it. Sadly there will only be few that will find it. But, this thread you started is just another attempt to continue the thread which was locked by the admin. Ministers who reject Jesus name baptism? You used the word "reject." Therefore we can see that you are bringing up individuals who are willfully ignorant. This is their problem. So, it's not that they are ignorant of the proper teaching. But they are rejectors of the Bible. So, no matter how many addresses or first letters to a relative's name they say over a pulpit to prove their title of miracle worker. They are still incredibly lost as a potato.

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

Don't miss the point that it was God, not Man, who called Moses, even while knowing that he had not been obedient to the covenant. Also true is that it is God who performs the miracles at the hands of those who reject Jesus name baptism.

A false premise. Listen Don, you were told a lot of nonsense in whatever church you came up in. Here you sit now, believing, as long as a preacher brings literal fire down from heaven, he is a legitimate man from God.
Nicodemus tried to tell Jesus that the Rabbinate knew Jesus was from God. All because of the miracles that Jesus performed. Yet, that didn't impress Jesus. Therefore Jesus clued Nicodemus into the fact that Nicodemus needed to be born again from above. Which could only be obtained through obedience to God's will and word.

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

The Lord will continue to do what he thinks is best even while contradicting our theological (mis)understandings of it.

This could be touted by every religion or cult on the planet. Therefore patently meaningless here.

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

God wants all to respond to the command for Jesus name baptism. Any who refuse do so, do so at their own peril, but may not prevent them from performing miracles.

So, they are lost miracle workers. As Jesus clearly said, depart from me, all you who work lawlessness. You do understand that Moses, Aaron, and Miriam didn't enter the promise land.

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

The story of Moses's experience should be shared with those miracle workers who assume that because they perform miracles they think their erroneous baptism theology (among other false doctrines) must be acceptable.

Listen, Don, if they can't see the clear word in a Bible discussion? Then they couldn't careless whatever else you showed them. It's like wasting my time with you. You believe what you post in these threads to be manna from heaven. No matter what amount of book, chapter, and verse we pound out for you, you refuse to accept the clear word. It's ironic to see you post the above, when you yourself believe, if its not coming out of your chimney, then it's just not smoke.

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

The Bible shows us that Moses performed miracles while disobedient, even as these do. Thus, miracles do not necessarily testify to the validity of held doctrines of the miracle worker, nor necessarily of the character of the one used to perform them. The Moses story and today's non-Jesus name baptism miracle workers shows God's great trust and grace as placed in Man.

So, both don't make it into the promise land.

Yet, Moses didn't reject God as your Jesus name baptism haters.

[Amanah]

Exodus 4 is about God's continued preparation of Moses to lead the Israelites out of slavery in Egypt. Here's a summary:

1. Moses' excuses (Exodus 4:1-17):
- Moses expresses his inadequacy and fear of public speaking.
- God reassures him, saying He will be with him and give him the words to speak.
- Moses asks God to send someone else, but God insists Moses is the chosen leader.
2. The staff of God (Exodus 4:17-20):
- God instructs Moses to take his staff, which will become a symbol of God's power.
- God performs two signs through the staff: turning it into a snake and back into a staff, and making Moses' hand leprous and then healing it.
3. Warning of Pharaoh's resistance (Exodus 4:21-23):
- God warns Moses that Pharaoh will resist and not let the Israelites go.
- God instructs Moses to perform the signs He has given him to demonstrate His power.
4. Circumcision and meeting with Aaron (Exodus 4:24-31):
- Moses meets his brother Aaron, who will become his spokesperson.
- Moses' son has not been circumcised, and God seeks to kill him for this neglect.
- Zipporah, Moses' wife, circumcises their son, saving Moses' life.

Exodus 4 is about God preparing Moses for ministry. Not a justification for faithless disobedience.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Exodus 4 is about God preparing Moses for ministry. Not a justification for faithless disobedience.

Thank you sister.